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                <text>Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Tun&#13;
Lay&#13;
Page&#13;
1&#13;
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT&#13;
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET&#13;
Interviewee: Tun Lay&#13;
Present: Tun Lay, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan Gill&#13;
Place of Interview: Tun Lay’s home in Logan, Utah&#13;
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015&#13;
Language(s): Pwo Karen; English&#13;
Translation:&#13;
Interviewer: Bethany Hanks&#13;
Interpreter: Chit Moe&#13;
Recordist: Wes Van de Water&#13;
Photographer: Meagan Gill&#13;
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL&#13;
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone&#13;
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.&#13;
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 17, 2015&#13;
Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 18, 2015&#13;
Brief Description of Contents: Tun Lay describes his life as a Karen refugee. He talks about&#13;
his life in Burma during war, and the hardships placed on him by the Burmese military in trying&#13;
to earn a living as a farmer. He explains how he escaped from Burma to Thailand refugee camps,&#13;
and how he eventual brought his wife and child to live with him there. Tun Lay recounts his&#13;
experiences in various refugee camps (including fleeing villages burned by Burmese military, his&#13;
religious path, and family), and also how he eventually came to the United States (first Salt Lake&#13;
City, Utah; followed by Logan, Utah). He discusses how he came to live in Cache Valley, Utah,&#13;
and how he has adjusted to living and working in the United States.&#13;
Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks&#13;
BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator&#13;
TL = Tun Lay&#13;
TLI = Tun Lay’s words interpreted by translator&#13;
WV = Wes Van de Water&#13;
WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator&#13;
MG = Meagan Gill&#13;
MGI = Meagan Gill’s words interpreted by translator&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Tun&#13;
Lay&#13;
Page&#13;
2&#13;
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false starts and&#13;
stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with&#13;
brackets.&#13;
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION&#13;
[00:01]&#13;
BH: Okay. Today is May 16, 2015, and this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water and&#13;
Meagan Gill. We are students at Utah State University, and we are working on a project&#13;
called “Voices: Refugees in Cache Valley.” Right now we are visiting Tun Lay in his&#13;
home, in Logan, Utah, and Chit Moe is our translator.&#13;
So, first of all thank you, Tun Lay, for letting us come here into your home.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
BH: First, I would like to know what is your full name, and your birth year?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: My name is Tun Lay and I was born in 1958.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Oh, 1954. I’m sorry, 1954.&#13;
BH: Okay. Thank you.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And May 28th, 1954.&#13;
BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: He speaks Karen, Pwo Karen and Burmese, but right now we are speaking Pwo Karen.&#13;
BH: Okay; so not Burmese?&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
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TLI: No, it’s not Burmese.&#13;
BH: Okay; very cool. Can you tell me about your family?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yes.&#13;
BH: So, do you have other family members?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: He has a family here, but not relatives.&#13;
BH: Oh, okay. So you have family here, but not relatives? So like you have a brother and&#13;
sister, or I don’t know if I quite understand?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I have a wife [laughs] –&#13;
BH: Oh, okay.&#13;
TLI: And three children – one is married (and he is in Arizona), and the other two live with&#13;
me.&#13;
BH: Wow, so they live here?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yes, two live with him, and the other one is in Arizona.&#13;
BH: Okay. Were your children – were they born here?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
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TLI: No, none.&#13;
BH: None? Where did you live before?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Before I was in Burma in the city called Tun Aung; the name of the city is Tun Aung.&#13;
[Translator speaking to interviewer] Should I spell it?&#13;
BH: Yeah, how do you spell that?&#13;
TLI: Tun Aung (I think): T-U-N A-U-N-G. Tun Aung.&#13;
[Translator speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: P-U, actually. It’s P-U.&#13;
BH: P-U-N?&#13;
TLI: No, just P-U.&#13;
BH: Oh, just P-U?&#13;
[04:02]&#13;
TLI: Pu Aung.&#13;
BH: Pu Aung.&#13;
TLI: That’s the name of the city.&#13;
BH: Wow. Can you tell me a little about this city?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Ever since I was born in that city, I grew up; when I got old I married to my wife, then&#13;
we moved to Thailand and now we’re in America. But I can tell you step by step of the&#13;
process of what I’ve been through.&#13;
BH: I would love to hear, step by step, the process.&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
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Page&#13;
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BHI: [Repeating remark in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, he is going to explain it step by step.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So when I got married I had one kid.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So my occupation was being a farmer and raising cows and other animals.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Me living in the United States, there are difficulties here.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Oh, it’s still in Burma, actually (my mistake).&#13;
BH: In Burma?&#13;
TLI: Yeah. So we faced difficulties in Pu Aung, in Burma.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So in Burma there are difficulties, meaning we were in fear of Burmese military, and we&#13;
couldn’t do work freely.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So between Burmese military and the Karen military, they were in war and we were&#13;
really scared.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So we couldn’t do our work when there was a war because the Burmese military would&#13;
come to our village and take us as porters – you know, forcing us to do work for them.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
Cache&#13;
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Project:&#13;
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TLI: So if they couldn’t find us, they would go to our work place and kind of drag us to where&#13;
they wanted to take us; if not, they would come at night and just force us – just drag us&#13;
out of our house.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Living there was really difficult, and I couldn’t do any work; so moving around and I&#13;
ended up in Thailand.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I was just following strangers, being stranded, and that’s how I got to Thailand.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So living in Thailand many, many years I have learned and found the U.N., which is a&#13;
great organization which helps the refugees: they give food and shelter.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[08:39]&#13;
TLI: So from what I see from what I learned, I wanted my wife to come to Thailand in a&#13;
refugee camp. So I started telling her to do the same process, you know, asking strangers&#13;
for a ride, being stranded; and that’s how she also got to a Thailand refugee camp.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So living there many, many years I had two children.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So living there for many, many years again, we were given like a photo ID for living in a&#13;
refugee camp (like a permanent resident thing).&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: [Responding to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So after a few years we learned that the UN were telling people that they could go to&#13;
other countries (like United States, Australia). And then they told us that we had to fill&#13;
out an application, and we did it.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
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TLI: So many people in a refugee camp came to such other countries, and I was also one of&#13;
them.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So in June it will be –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: In June 11th of this year it will be –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: It will be seven years of my family living in Utah, in the United States.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Living here is very, very peaceful, happy for me and my family; I have work, I have&#13;
food, I mean, there is nothing to worry about (like being free, peaceful), you know, being&#13;
free.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I am very, very happy, and I am very glad I am in this state and in this country.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So everything I was born living in Burma was really difficult, and there was many&#13;
difficulties; and there are many, many things that I have faced that I just can’t talk about&#13;
it all at the same time because there are just many, many difficulties.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And my family and I are very, very thankful to the UN, which they provided us food and&#13;
shelter; we are very, very thankful to them.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, being in Utah is the same thing: many people help us out, you know, getting us a&#13;
house (for example), and yeah –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
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TLI: So when I first came to the United States I was in Salt Lake for a year, and now I am in&#13;
Logan for almost six years.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[12:25]&#13;
TLI: And I am very happy for being in Logan, and I have a job in JBS, and I have worked&#13;
there for almost seven years.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Just like that.&#13;
BH: Wow. So you mentioned going from Burma to Thailand, and it sounds like you would&#13;
take rides from strangers. Can you describe a little bit more about maybe what the&#13;
journey was like going from Burma to Thailand?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So number one key is between Burma and Thailand, there were a lot of people who were&#13;
like transporter (I would say): they would do business across each country –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Okay, some people would hire other people – I mean, some people would go to Thailand,&#13;
buy a lot of food, and then they would hire people and take it back to Burma and sell it&#13;
there.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I was one of the people who got hired. I was carrying bags, you know, back and forth and&#13;
that’s how I got to Thailand.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And when I got to Thailand I saw Thai people, you know, they were hiring people to do&#13;
work, and I was one of the workers in there as well.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So from there, working there for a few months – as I was crossing from Thailand to&#13;
Burma, I saw a refugee camp (which I also heard about it), and that’s when I started&#13;
going to the refugee camp asking people, maybe to see if there is anyone I know, and&#13;
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people were telling me that, “It’s better here,” you know, “we have food; we are stuffed.&#13;
You should come and live over here.”&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And that’s when I tell my wife and my child to also come up to the refugee camp to live&#13;
with me.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And living there many, many years – that’s when that organization, they were you know,&#13;
taking applications; and that’s how I got here.&#13;
BH: Okay; wow. After you fill out an application, is it difficult to get into the camp – the&#13;
refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[16:16]&#13;
TLI: So there was no application to get to the refugee camp. What you do is that you go talk to&#13;
– so in the refugee camp there is a certain section where they put you in – you just go talk&#13;
to the leader, just talk to him or her, and then he would like take you to another person&#13;
who is like the leader for the whole camp. And then that’s when you started telling your&#13;
story, and that’s when they can tell whether you’re lying, or whether you’re telling the&#13;
truth and how difficult your life was; and that’s how they accept me to live in the camp.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So why they were asking me questions, you know, how my life was, I have to tell the&#13;
truth and later on they would have to, you know, figure out whether that’s the truth or&#13;
not. If it’s true, then they let me live in there; if not, then no.&#13;
BH: Okay. Was it difficult for your wife and your child to also come over?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
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TLI: There was no difficulty for my wife and child to come to the refugee camp because I was&#13;
already there, and all I had to do was tell the leader – tell him that my wife is coming, and&#13;
he would be like, “Okay, that’s fine.” But the difficulty was for my wife and child to get&#13;
to the refugee camp – that was one of the difficulties. Because fortunately my wife speaks&#13;
Burmese, so sometimes she would speak in Burmese and people would think, “Oh, she’s&#13;
Burmese, just let her go.” And sometimes the military would think that, “Oh, this is a&#13;
very pitiful family, just let them go.” And that’s how they got to the refugee camp.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[Tun Lay’s daughter and one of his sons enter the room. His daughter greets everyone.]&#13;
BH: Hello.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So for me and my family, on my way to the refugee camp, we have met with Karen&#13;
military, and they were very nice, very generous; they helped us –&#13;
[Tun Lay’s daughter drops something on the floor; she apologizes.]&#13;
TLI: You know, they help us get to another place and they were really nice.&#13;
BH: Okay. So was it dangerous at all – that trip from Burma to Thailand? I’m just wondering&#13;
if – because it sounds like you rely a lot on strangers – is that difficult to do, is that scary?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[19:56]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So one thing is that once you reach the border between Burma and Thailand, it’s easier –&#13;
you can just walk to the refugee camp with nothing to worry about.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Once you reach Thailand border – you can either walk there or take a ride from the Thai&#13;
military, and you can just pay them $5 or $10.&#13;
BH: Wow. So can you describe for me a little what your surroundings were in the refugee&#13;
camp – like what it looked like?&#13;
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BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So when I was in the refugee camp there was a city called Kue Bong [??] (I don’t know&#13;
how to spell that), but Kue Bong –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So you know, like I said, there was a city really close to the refugee camp; in that camp –&#13;
we lived there for a few years, and then Burmese military were coming and they burned&#13;
the whole village down.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And then we started, after the Burmese military were coming to burn our refugee camp,&#13;
we moved to another camp, which is called –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: [Speaking to the interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Kue Bong was the first refugee camp that I was in, and after a few years the Burmese&#13;
military were coming, burned down the village; and then I got to another town which is&#13;
called –&#13;
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Kwe Ka Lu [??]&#13;
TL: Kwe Ka Lu&#13;
TLI: Kwe Ka Lu. K-something. Got it?&#13;
BH: Kwe Ka Lu&#13;
TLI: Um-hmm.&#13;
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
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TLI: And living there for one and a half years, the Burmese military were there again, and they&#13;
burned the village down and we started –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So after when the Burmese military were coming and, you know, burning the village&#13;
down we got help from the UN. They took us over the mountains, and we started living&#13;
on a mountain – it’s called Umpium camp right now. A lot of Karen people were there as&#13;
well; it is on a mountain.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So I can still remember the year that I got to the Umpium camp – it was 1999.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So starting from 1999, I lived in the Umpium camp all the way until 2008; and that’s&#13;
when I started coming to the United States.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: June 11th, 2008, was the date I departed from the refugee camp.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And I lived in Salt Lake for one year, and now I’m here in Logan for six years.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yep, that’s pretty much it.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Living here is really a good thing for me, you know; you can go anywhere you want, you&#13;
have a job. I’m really happy.&#13;
[24:40]&#13;
BH: That’s good. Let’s see – so can you tell me a little about your first months here, in the&#13;
United States; and maybe the problems and the difficulties, but maybe also the good&#13;
things that you saw?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
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TLI: When I first arrived in the United States my family, we were put in a house (like in an&#13;
apartment), and people were saying, “Later on, if you guys cannot pay the rent, you guys&#13;
will be kicked out.” And we were really worried, you know, and that was one of the fears&#13;
that we had in our first month. And after a few months we had to do like a community&#13;
service at CCS (in Salt Lake) where we had to go and give food to the people (I think&#13;
they are the homeless, I think that’s the service). And after a few months I heard about&#13;
the JBS and I came here, got a job, and that’s when I asked my family to move here.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So you know, in that first month there wasn’t a lot to do; but on the second month, like I&#13;
said, I had to do service at CCS (it was fun), and I had to do it two days a week, and the&#13;
other two days was me going to school to learn English.&#13;
[27:59]&#13;
BH: Wow. So when you came to the United States, did you have any prior knowledge of&#13;
English?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: No, not at all; my wife, my children – nobody knows English.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And I only know how to read Burmese, specifically.&#13;
BH: Wow. So did that make it difficult to interact with people when you first moved here?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: It wasn’t really difficult because I was speaking with other Karen communities; and if I&#13;
wanted to talk to an English speaker we had it translated.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
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TLI: So there wasn’t any difficulties.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So if we wanted to go buy groceries, we would ask someone who came here before us,&#13;
you know, who has a car – and we would ask them to take us to buy food, groceries.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So if we needed help with anything we would go to IRC (it’s also in Salt Lake) and they&#13;
have translators over there, you know; they have people that can help you with what you&#13;
need.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Like I said, if we need help we can go to IRC, CCS or another place – it’s called DWS&#13;
(it’s Department of Workforce Services); and they also have translators over there, you&#13;
know. We would like ask someone who came before us to take us over there, or&#13;
sometimes DWS will come and pick us up personally.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So everybody surrounding me here – like all the Americans – they were really nice; they&#13;
helped us in many ways.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And that is why I am living here really happy, my family is really happy.&#13;
BH: That’s good.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
BH: So the reason why you moved to Logan was to work at JBS?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
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TLI: Yes, that is correct.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So you know, when I was hired at JBS I worked there for one year. And then after that I&#13;
went back to Salt Lake and I told my family to move with me to Logan, in this apartment&#13;
(this house), and I haven’t moved ever since.&#13;
BH: Wow. So I wonder if you could describe for me sort of the differences in food? Maybe&#13;
some things that you used to eat in Burma, that maybe you can’t find here, or maybe you&#13;
can? Maybe just a little bit about the food of your culture.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So I have no problem eating American food here – it’s better than what I used to eat back&#13;
there.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, there are more food here than back in the refugee camp.&#13;
BH: So what kind of food was available in the refugee camp?&#13;
[33:06]&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: There are many, many foods. One is rice – they gave us oil, and beans, and –&#13;
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And peppers – chili; yeah, a lot of food – like food that is very sufficient for each family.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: They gave us food like once a month.&#13;
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BH: Okay. So what kinds of food do you like to eat now that you’re here, in the United&#13;
States?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: He said there are many; there is a lot of food in America (like chicken, fish) – I just, I like&#13;
everything.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]&#13;
TLI: There are a lot of food, like – yeah, I just like everything.&#13;
BH: Okay. So I wanted to ask how people respond when they find out you’re from Burma? I&#13;
know you said in Salt Lake the people were really friendly, and so I just want to see if&#13;
that’s still the case, or if people respond differently?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So when I got to the United States, I mean even when someone asked me where I’m&#13;
from, “Burma.”&#13;
“Yeah, okay.” There wasn’t any negative thing.&#13;
BH: Okay, that’s good. Can you tell me a little about your home here, and how it’s different&#13;
from your home in Burma?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So it’s really different here, houses – to describe it, it’s perfect, you know. But in Burma&#13;
it’s very different, you have to build your own home; you have to use like bamboo to&#13;
build it. And you have to make your own walls, but they’re not tight walls and wind can&#13;
go through any time. It was really different from here.&#13;
BH: Wow. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, or your family, or your&#13;
ethnic group?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[37:22]&#13;
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TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: He is not very clear on the question.&#13;
BH: Let’s see if I can ask it a different way. Is there anything that you would like to share with&#13;
the people around here that maybe they don’t know, or you wish they knew?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So I have a different message, you know: I want people to know – before that, I believe&#13;
in God, and I want people to know that one day everybody will have a chance to live in&#13;
heaven.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So I kind of asked him to make sure he understand that question, and –&#13;
BH: Um-hmm?&#13;
TLI: He said that there isn’t anything that he really wants to share because he feels that other&#13;
people, you know, (other American people) I’m sure they have faced many difficulty as&#13;
well (getting here) – maybe back in the day or something. So it’s probably the same&#13;
story.&#13;
BH: Okay. Would you ever be interested in going back to Burma?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I’m very happy here. I do feel like going back, but I don’t want to go back because my&#13;
parents, my brothers – I don’t know where they are; in Burma, I don’t know where&#13;
they’re at and I don’t want to go back.&#13;
BH: Okay. What are you most proud of?&#13;
TLI: Here, or?&#13;
BH: Yeah, I would say what are you most proud of out of all of this: your experiences and&#13;
traveling?&#13;
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BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I’m very proud, you know, to live each day being healthy and being happy day after day.&#13;
So yeah, that’s what I’m really proud of.&#13;
[41:20]&#13;
BH: Thank you. And do you have any dreams for the future – either for yourself, or for your&#13;
children?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: For me, my family, my children, my family, my wife – for my family – I don’t have any&#13;
dreams for us, but I do believe in God and I pray for us (for me and for my family) you&#13;
know, to be healthy, to stay happy. Yeah.&#13;
BH: Okay. I think those are all of my questions. But before we end, I just want to see if any of&#13;
my colleagues have one as well.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, you guys can ask questions.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: If I know the answer, I will answer it; but if I don’t, I don’t.&#13;
WV: I’m just kind of curious who plays the guitar in the family – is that yours?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, I used to – every Sunday when I pray with my family – I used to play the guitar&#13;
every Sunday.&#13;
WV: Nice.&#13;
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TLI: According to my religion, my Bible, it said that when you’re praying, you know, when&#13;
you’re praying and asking for God’s help, you must play a song (you know, play with the&#13;
guitar).&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
TLI: And so I’m doing it every Sunday.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I believe that – I know that we can’t see God, but I know God can help us in a way.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And how do I know this is because I am very healthy every day, and I have been doing&#13;
work here for almost seven years and I am very healthy – and I know that God is helping&#13;
me.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And at the same time I want to tell people that God is helping us, but if they want to&#13;
listen, then I can tell them; if you don’t want to listen, then I don’t have to tell them.&#13;
BH: Do you have any questions?&#13;
MG: Yeah. What is your favorite thing about Cache Valley? What is your favorite thing to do&#13;
here?&#13;
MGI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: He doesn’t know what his favorite thing is. Is there an example you can give?&#13;
MG: Hiking, camping –&#13;
MGI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[45:37]&#13;
TLI: No, I haven’t done that – hiking or camping; I’ve just been driving around the city, going&#13;
back to Salt Lake and eating at restaurants sometimes.&#13;
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, I’ve never been hiking.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: But I would like to go one day.&#13;
BH: So actually, I thought of a couple more questions – if that’s okay?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, that’s fine.&#13;
TL: [Laughs]&#13;
BH: Okay. So you mentioned the guitar, and playing music is an important part of your&#13;
religious observance – so I was just wondering if you could kind of describe your&#13;
religious community; sort of, things about your religion?&#13;
BHI: Community?&#13;
BH: Yeah&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: I know that every religion has different beliefs, and there are different ways how you can&#13;
pray to God; but my way is I read the Bible every day, and that’s how I understand God’s&#13;
word. I remember when I was in the refugee camp, you know, and living there for eight&#13;
years, I was going around to different religions, you know, listening to people giving&#13;
speeches. One day I met this priest, you know, he taught me many valuable things, and he&#13;
even asked me to be an heir priest – is that how you say it? Well, yeah.&#13;
BH: Like an apprentice?&#13;
TLI: Well to become the next priest.&#13;
BH: Okay; to be like the replacement after him?&#13;
TLI: Yes, yes. Yeah, he even asked me to become that – or if he has to go somewhere else,&#13;
you know, I’d be taking his position to do all the religious things in the church. Yeah.&#13;
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So there are lots of gods; Americans call him Jesus, but the thing is you need to know&#13;
which one is real, you know, which one is the real God.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So whether there are many gods, or just one God – if anybody want to listen, I can tell&#13;
them the story.&#13;
BH: If you want to share.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So there is only one God that I believe in, you know; he cannot be sick, or he can heal –&#13;
he can get all or any other things. Before anybody (any human being) exists, he lived here&#13;
before, and he created the Earth, trees, everything.&#13;
[50:20]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Another type of God is who can die, who heals, and it is called –&#13;
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And in Burmese it is called [Pwo Karen word]&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And the easier way to say is Pe Synga Piya[??]&#13;
BH: Pe Synga –&#13;
TLI: Piya. Pe Synga Piya. Yeah.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And he is a God that can die, and you know, and can’t heal people. And he is the God&#13;
that the particular God created. Do you understand that?&#13;
BH: He would –&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Tun&#13;
Lay&#13;
Page&#13;
22&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So the one person God – he created another person who is also God, but he can die.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: If it’s God Jesus – there is only one Jesus.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And he is everybody – for everybody’s God.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: He can’t die, you know, he can’t get old – he is the only one.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: There is a guarantee, you know, that if anybody believe that there is God, that one&#13;
particular person will be in heaven.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So if you believe God, you know, you have to follow his words; you have to read the&#13;
Bible, you have to do what the Bible says.&#13;
BH: So I have just one more question.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: That’s fine.&#13;
BH: You seem very interested in religion, and so I was wondering if that was a part of your&#13;
life before you came to the refugee camp, or if that’s something that you really became&#13;
interested in once you got to the refugee camps?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[53:11]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Tun&#13;
Lay&#13;
Page&#13;
23&#13;
TLI: So I was really, really interested in God in the year 1999, and that was when I got to the&#13;
refugee camp called Umpium; and that was when I was really interested in religion.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: So in the refugee camp there are a lot of people who just go around the camp, you know,&#13;
telling stories, sharing God’s word, you know.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And I would go all over the place to listen to their speeches, you know; it can be night, or&#13;
it can be day.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Why I wanted to know that is because I believe God is good, and you know –&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And you know, like I say, I started listening to those speeches every day, and that’s&#13;
where I learned knowledge, you know, about religion.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And I understood a lot of words that – well, the speakers’ word.&#13;
TL: [Laughs]&#13;
BH: Very neat. So there were not very many people in Burma who spoke of these different&#13;
religions? I guess I’m just wondering why it was so prevalent in the refugee camp – was&#13;
it the same way in Burma?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: No; I didn’t see any in Burma.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Yeah, I started seeing it in the refugee camp.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Tun&#13;
Lay&#13;
Page&#13;
24&#13;
TLI: So when I was in Burma, I heard of such religions, but I had never seen it.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: When I first got to the refugee camp, you know, I was asked, “Do you know God? Do&#13;
you know the real one, you know, the one that can heal, the one that can’t get old?” So&#13;
I’m like, “Well God is good, so yes – I want to know.”&#13;
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: And now that I know a lot about God, you know, I do want to share it with people, to&#13;
those who want to listen; but if you don’t want to listen, that’s okay.&#13;
BH: So I think we are almost out of time, unfortunately – because we only have so much time&#13;
that we can record on here. But it has been fascinating to listen to you.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]&#13;
TLI: Thank you.&#13;
BH: Thank you very much.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
TLI: Thank you.&#13;
BH: So I think that’s the end of the interview.&#13;
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]&#13;
[End recording – 57:20]</text>
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CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT&#13;
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET&#13;
Interviewee: Pyo Nwe&#13;
Present: Pyo Nwe, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan&#13;
Gill&#13;
Place of Interview: Pyo Nwe’s home in Logan, Utah&#13;
Date of Interview: May 18, 2015&#13;
Language(s): Karen; English&#13;
Translation:&#13;
Interviewer: Bethany Hanks&#13;
Interpreter: Chit Moe&#13;
Recordist: Wes Van de Water&#13;
Photographer: Meagan Gill&#13;
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-&#13;
18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic&#13;
microphone&#13;
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe&#13;
Transcribed by: Bethany Hanks, May 24, 2015&#13;
Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 25, 2015&#13;
Brief Description of Contents: Pyo Nwe describes her life in a Karen refugee camp&#13;
before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the Karen refugee&#13;
camp and what it was like living there, getting married there, and having children there.&#13;
She also describes the changes and difficulties that she and her family faced (and still&#13;
face) when they left the refugee camp and came to the United States.&#13;
Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks&#13;
BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator&#13;
PN = Pyo Nwe&#13;
PNI = Pyo Nwe interpreted by translator&#13;
WV = Wes Van de Water&#13;
WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
2&#13;
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false&#13;
starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to&#13;
transcript are noted with brackets.&#13;
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION&#13;
[00:01]&#13;
BH: Okay, today is May 18, 2015. And this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water&#13;
on audio and Meagan Gill taking photographs. We’re all students at Utah State&#13;
University and are working on a project called “Voices: Refugees in Cache&#13;
Valley.” Right now we’re visiting Pyo Nwe at her home in Logan, Utah. And her&#13;
little son is with us, who is 8 months old, and Chit Moe is translating.&#13;
So, first we want to thank you Pyo Nwe for letting us come and speak with you.&#13;
So first, um, can I have you say your full name and birth year?&#13;
PN: Pyo Nwe Nwe&#13;
BH: Pyo Nwe Nwe?&#13;
PN: January 1st, 1978.&#13;
BH: Thank you.&#13;
PNI: Date of birth, January 1st, 1978.&#13;
BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [laughs]&#13;
[responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I speak Karen and Burmese.&#13;
BH: Thank you. Can you tell me a little about your family?&#13;
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: In Utah, or?&#13;
BH: Um, if you can talk about maybe your family here in Utah and also if you have&#13;
family over in Karen too?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[2:07]&#13;
[Baby breathing loudly]&#13;
PNI: Um, my family, we all lived in refugee camps and then we all moved to Utah,&#13;
which is, we were in Salt Lake and we came in March 3rd, 2008.&#13;
[2:25]&#13;
[Baby makes noises]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: We lived there for one year in Salt Lake City, and we moved here in 2009, and&#13;
we’ve been here ever since.&#13;
BH: He likes the microphone, doesn’t he?&#13;
[laughs]&#13;
So the refugee camp where you were at – where was that exactly?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: It is called Mela Camp.&#13;
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BH: Mela Camp? And do you have any idea where the location of that is in Thailand?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: We didn’t know. It is close to the border, and I know that it’s in Thailand, but I&#13;
don’t know whether it’s the south or which states or province it’s in. We just&#13;
know that it’s a refugee camp.&#13;
BH: Okay, and did you say how long you were there for?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: 1997 to 2008.&#13;
PNI: From 1997 to 2008.&#13;
BH: Wow, so then did you grow up quite a lot in this refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: Like, did she grow up in refugee camp?&#13;
BH: Yeah, like there as a young child and maybe as a teenager.&#13;
PN: Yeah, teenager.&#13;
BH: Yeah?&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yes, I was sixteen years old back then.&#13;
BH: Okay. What was it like for you, being there as a young person in the refugee&#13;
camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
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PNI: Well, at first I lived in Burma. I was poor – my family was poor, and from what I&#13;
heard, refugee is a better place than Burma. At refugee camp they have school,&#13;
and their schooling is free. So I decided to go to refugee camp for education&#13;
purposes.&#13;
BH: Okay, so what kinds of education did they offer in the refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, the education in the refugee camp was – it’s not so great like in America,&#13;
but it’s better than Burma though.&#13;
[5:59]&#13;
[Baby breathes loudly]&#13;
BH: Okay, what kinds of things did you learn in the refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I don’t know if I learned much in the refugee camp because at first, coming to a&#13;
refugee camp was to study—&#13;
[Baby makes noises]&#13;
—but then, things changes, you know. Different circumstances occurred, and it&#13;
just changes.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: And I didn’t get to learn.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[Baby makes noises]&#13;
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PNI: However, I did help out the school and the teachers with a few things; just helping&#13;
out for a few years.&#13;
BH: Okay. Did you have any brothers or sisters with you, or your parents?&#13;
PN: Yeah, [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I have three brothers, I mean –&#13;
PN: Three sisters.&#13;
PNI: – three sisters. One is in Thailand and the other is in Burma, in Karen State.&#13;
BH: Okay, we’ll get him some toys huh; let him play.&#13;
[laughs]&#13;
So are your siblings, are they still, you said in Thailand and Burma? Are they still&#13;
over there? Yeah? So, they weren’t in the refugee camp with you? Or –&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[8:47]&#13;
PNI: No, they didn’t live with me in the refugee camp, but my older sister (the one&#13;
that’s in Thailand) she has a daughter who has a disease, and in order to cure the&#13;
disease, there isn’t a hospital in the refugee camp. There is, but it’s not very big.&#13;
So, they had to go to Thailand to work over there and to get her daughter the cure.&#13;
BH: Do you remember much about your life before being in the refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, a lot.&#13;
BH: Yeah? What kinds of things do you remember?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
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PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, I remember lots of things, but which one are you wanting to know more&#13;
about?&#13;
BH: Yeah, let’s see, I guess things about your family – maybe your daily, kind of what&#13;
life would have been like for you on just a regular day? Or maybe like the sort of&#13;
the political situation, if it was dangerous at all.&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[11:53]&#13;
PNI: Well, I do remember like from 1989 or 1990, well – not before 1990. I think I was&#13;
about 9 or 10 years old back then. We had, like I said, three sisters, and I lived&#13;
with my parents. Well, my biggest goal was to go to school you know, to have a&#13;
better school for me. Back then it was really difficult because the Burmese&#13;
military were coming and forcing people to become porters, and my dad was one&#13;
of them. After he has gone to do the porter thing, and then he lost his leg, like&#13;
during the war, and he couldn’t work any more after that. It was a really&#13;
challenging for my family. After a few months or a few days (I can’t remember)&#13;
my older sister, she kind of left us and she went to Thailand.&#13;
BH: Wow, thank you. So was education, then, I know you said – you mentioned&#13;
education earlier, and you wanted to get a better education. Were there other&#13;
reasons for relocating to the refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yes, I wanted to go to school like really bad back then. In my village, my family&#13;
was the poorest out of everybody, and then in order to go to school there we had&#13;
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to have like a good umbrella, good shoes, good clothes – and my parents, they&#13;
couldn’t afford to buy any of that. And I kind of felt embarrassed, I mean, to go to&#13;
school there, so I though it’d be better to go to school in a refugee camp where&#13;
everything is free, you know. But then when I got to the refugee camp, I got&#13;
married – so I didn’t really get to go to school.&#13;
BH: So you met your husband, then, in the refugee camp? What was that like? Was&#13;
that a good place, I guess, to meet lots of people?&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[15:33]&#13;
PNI: I think it’s a good place to meet with lots of people, but back then I was kind of&#13;
young. I was still young, and I had lots of thoughts: there isn’t anyone to support&#13;
me; my family isn’t here either.&#13;
[Baby makes spitting noise]&#13;
I guess that’s how I though about getting married you know – to find my&#13;
companion who, we can maybe support each other now. It’s just the thought that&#13;
came by.&#13;
BH: Very neat. So, your husband in here with you now? Did you all come over, did&#13;
you leave the refugee camp together? Yeah?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: Yes.&#13;
BH: How difficult was it to, I guess, go through the process of coming to another&#13;
country? Was that difficult or was it fairly easy?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, in Burma, it’s difficult there.&#13;
[Baby rattles toy and breathes loudly for a few seconds]&#13;
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In Thailand it’s the same thing. And here it’s still difficult.&#13;
BH: Yeah?&#13;
PNI: I don’t think that’s answering your question. Everywhere is difficult.&#13;
BH: Uh-huh. So, I guess, another way to ask would be is it difficult to gain entry as a&#13;
refugee into the United States?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[phone buzzes]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[Baby coughs]&#13;
PN: Sorry.&#13;
BH: Oh, that’s okay.&#13;
[17:58]&#13;
[Pyo Nwe moves play set nearby]&#13;
Children like to be active, I know. I have nieces and nephews, and they’re, yeah.&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I think it’s a fairly easy process to get to United States, you know, compared to&#13;
people who came here with visa or other things. Because we were refugees, then&#13;
it was easier.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: To get here, we received lots of help, you know. People helped us step by step to&#13;
get here.&#13;
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BH: Okay, thank you. So in the refugee camps, did they celebrate any holidays or have&#13;
any special religious days?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, there are.&#13;
BH: Yeah, like, can you give us an example of one of those special holidays and&#13;
maybe how it was celebrated?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[19:49]&#13;
PNI: The biggest thing would be, we have Karen New Year, and we have Burmese&#13;
New Year. For Karen New Year, in the beginning we had like a – I would say like&#13;
camp leaders, lots of leaders, you know. They will go up on the stage and just&#13;
give speeches.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, Karen has it’s own culture, and Burmese has its own culture.&#13;
BH: So, what’s the main difference, I guess, between Karen New Year and Burmese&#13;
New Year?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Because I’m not as – I guess, I don’t have a good experience, like such leaders,&#13;
but what I can tell is that for Burmese New Year, they celebrate it on April. For&#13;
Karen, they do it on December.&#13;
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BH: Okay, so it’s mainly the time then.&#13;
[Baby coughs]&#13;
Wow. Thank you.&#13;
[baby makes noises]&#13;
So, when you were in the refugee camp, did you get any idea of what the people&#13;
in Thailand thought of the refugees in the camps?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[Baby coughs]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, I don’t know about other people, but for me, you know, I was really scared&#13;
of the Thai military. Thai, yeah. Because back then if we had, say we have a&#13;
meeting, say don’t go out of the camp today, then I will never go out of the camp&#13;
because if the Thai military captures you, they will send you somewhere else.&#13;
Another example is my husband who worked outside the camp –&#13;
[Baby coughs]&#13;
He was chased by Thai military lots of times, but fortunately he escaped every&#13;
single time he was chased.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: What makes me more scared is that when I went back to Thailand one day, I saw&#13;
the Burmese military. They were taking people, you know. They were taking&#13;
people to – I don’t know where they were taking them, but they were capturing&#13;
people, so it makes me more scared.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
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PNI: Yeah, for me, it was really scary, but I don’t know about other people.&#13;
BH: So, is that something that happens a lot – that maybe refugees leave the camp,&#13;
they sneak out or something, and then they’re captured by Thai military and taken&#13;
somewhere else?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[24:44]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, I think it –&#13;
[Baby bonks head]&#13;
Ooh.&#13;
BH: Oh no, is he okay?&#13;
[Baby cries]&#13;
PN: Oh.&#13;
BH: Is he okay?&#13;
[Baby cries]&#13;
Head bonk.&#13;
[baby cries]&#13;
PN: Sorry.&#13;
BH: Oh, that’s okay.&#13;
PNI: He wants to sleep now. He’s feeling sleepy. Well, I don’t know about now, but&#13;
back fourteen years ago, I would say it happened a lot because I have seen it&#13;
myself. I lived close to the Thai military gate, I guess, their area, I kind of lived&#13;
close to where they lived, and what I saw was there was this –&#13;
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[phone makes noise]&#13;
– there was this woman, I would say&#13;
[phone makes noise]&#13;
PN: [laughs]&#13;
PNI: Sorry.&#13;
BH: That’s okay&#13;
PNI: Okay, what happened was this Thai military guy – he went out, he found a&#13;
woman, he took her to the camp, not to the camp but to their place, and I lived&#13;
really close to it. And they were doing some horrible things to her, I think. I heard&#13;
the noise and everything, but I couldn’t help. I was so scared. So, I think it&#13;
happened a lot.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, at the same time, not all the Thai military are bad. Some are really good&#13;
people as well. I remember when I was pregnant, I saw Thai military who was&#13;
actually helping me with stuff, you know. He bought me food, so that was really&#13;
nice.&#13;
BH: Did you had some children while you were in the refugee camp.&#13;
PN: Four.&#13;
[laughs]&#13;
BH: Four?&#13;
PNI: She has four.&#13;
BH: So, four. So, this one with you, he is number four?&#13;
PN: Five.&#13;
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BH: Number five, okay. Was that difficult? Either medically—I mean, did they have,&#13;
um, places where you know, there was a doctor around to help you give birth?&#13;
And then you know, raising the children in the refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, there were hospitals in the refugee camps. If I were pregnant – if I were&#13;
close to giving birth, I could go to hospital and give birth there. But what’s sad is&#13;
that, like, my sister or people who lived in Burma, they, there was no way they&#13;
could afford to go to the hospital in Burma, so it was kind of sad.&#13;
BH: Yeah.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I think, personally for me, I had a better life than my sisters had.&#13;
[28:30]&#13;
BH: How different is it now, raising a child here in America compared with in the&#13;
refugee camp?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, before –&#13;
[Baby touches microphone]&#13;
– in the refugee camp, yeah, it was different raising a child compared to here and&#13;
in the refugee camp. Back there, I had four kids, my husband would go out and&#13;
work, and if he finds a job then he will bring us some money so we can buy good&#13;
food, good meal. But here, it’s like, he has a job, and it’s better than the refugee&#13;
camp, but here we have a different situation I guess. I’ve been here for seven&#13;
years, and I wanted to go to school, but because of a bad situation I just can’t go&#13;
to school here.&#13;
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BH: Is there anything that would help you be able to go to school here in the United&#13;
States?&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[baby cries]&#13;
PNI: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responds in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, before I was pregnant here in United States, I had a teacher, you know. She&#13;
would come and visit me and teach me English. So that was really nice, but she&#13;
moved to Colorado long ago. But now, I don’t expect to go to high school or&#13;
middle school. It’s not something I can handle; I know that very well. But I would&#13;
like a teacher who could come and teach me, because now that my children are&#13;
growing up, I have time to study; learn more English.&#13;
PN: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
[laughs]&#13;
BH: He’s cute. So I wanted to ask, although it sounds like you may have answered my&#13;
question already, but given the chance to go to school, what would you study?&#13;
Although it sounds like English is something that you would really like to learn,&#13;
but is there anything else?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[33:06]&#13;
PNI: Well no. English is the main thing that I want to learn. However, I do want to&#13;
learn a lot of English so I can communicate on a daily basis. Let’s say if someone&#13;
were to ask me a question, so that I know the answer to that question, or I&#13;
understand that question so I can answer it.&#13;
BH: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so do you think learning English would make living in America&#13;
easier for you?&#13;
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, yeah, I think if I could understand a lot, but not a hundred percent, then I&#13;
guess it would help a lot, you know. Though it’s not a hundred percent, it would&#13;
help a lot.&#13;
BH: Yeah.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: And at the same time, my brain is not as good as American people, so it’s not like&#13;
I can really learn English. It’s not like I can learn English like a hundred percent,&#13;
does that make sense?&#13;
[Baby cries]&#13;
BH: I think if I understand what she’s meaning, you can translate it back and make&#13;
sure I’ve got this right, but, it’s difficult once you’re an adult and you’ve already&#13;
learned—&#13;
PNI: Mmm, yeah.&#13;
BH: one language—&#13;
PN: Yeah.&#13;
BH: it’s harder to learn another.&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah.&#13;
BH: Because I think the situation would be – if we were to go to Karen, I think we&#13;
would be in a similar situation.&#13;
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PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, when I had a teacher, you know the one that moved to Colorado, back then,&#13;
I think I understood English, a lot, I guess. I understood English more than what I&#13;
understand now. Right now, I think I forgot lots of it, yeah.&#13;
PN: [laughs]&#13;
BH: Yeah. So, your first few months after leaving the refugee camp, you came to&#13;
America. What was that like for you and your family?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, I think it was kind of a little bit challenging. When me and my family first&#13;
came to America, there weren’t a lot of Karen people, and we really didn’t know&#13;
a lot about America I guess. Well, at first, people were giving us those apple juice&#13;
– we thought it was oil, so we didn’t want to touch it. And then when they gave us&#13;
lotion, we didn’t know what it is, so we use it for our face because it smells nice,&#13;
right? If we wanted to say something, there weren’t any interpreters back then.&#13;
And if we wanted to go buy groceries, we didn’t even know where to go.&#13;
BH: Wow. So, what did you end up doing when you needed to buy groceries? Did you&#13;
end up – was there someone around who was also from Karen who helped?&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[37:36]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, it wasn’t Karen people that helped my family. There weren’t many Karen&#13;
people like I said. It was people from the church. They pretty much helped us&#13;
with everything, I guess. Taking us to the hospital, you know, taking us to go&#13;
shopping, buying us stuff – yeah, from the church.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Oh, yeah, what I remember is that my oldest daughter – she had like a tooth pain&#13;
back here, the upper one, back here. We went to hospital, you know, and the&#13;
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doctor looked at it, but the doctor took one tooth out, but it was the one at the&#13;
bottom.&#13;
BH: Oh no.&#13;
PNI: But that one had cavities so it was okay, but the one that hurts was the one on top.&#13;
BH: So, it was on the top left?&#13;
PNI: Yeah, top.&#13;
BH: And he took out the bottom left.&#13;
PNI: The bottom left.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
PN: [laughs]&#13;
[speaking in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I had to take my daughter to the hospital again to take the other one out, the upper&#13;
left one.&#13;
BH: How did you communicate that with the dentist, or the man who was working on&#13;
her mouth?&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: We were just using, I guess, sign language – kind of this, that. But we had people&#13;
from the church, like one person who took us to the dentist, but back then there&#13;
was no interpreters, so we can’t tell him what was going on. We just tried to show&#13;
him this and that.&#13;
BH: Yeah, with your hands?&#13;
PNI: Yeah, all without sound.&#13;
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PNI: I didn’t know it either, that she had a tooth that was hurt, but my daughter just&#13;
told me that it hurts. But thought the doctor already took, it was the one on the&#13;
bottom already, but it still hurts.&#13;
BH: So, this church that you mention that helped you? Is this the church that you, or&#13;
the religion that you take part of?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[40:37]&#13;
PNI: It’s not my religion, that church, but they have a lot of people, you know. It&#13;
doesn’t matter whether you’re that – whether you come from that religion or not.&#13;
And they help a lot of Burmese and Karen refugees.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, everybody who’s a refugee doesn’t know anything. So they help with&#13;
everybody I guess.&#13;
[Phone starts ringing]&#13;
BH: Is that you’re phone—no?&#13;
PN: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
PNI: It’s a broken phone.&#13;
BH: Oh.&#13;
[laughs]&#13;
PN: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
BH: Oh, okay.&#13;
PNI: It plays it every morning.&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
20&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
[laughs]&#13;
BH: So, do you remember what the name of that church was?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: No, but it’s in Salt Lake. It’s the LDS church.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
[Baby makes noises]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: It’s around 300 East.&#13;
BH: Okay, in Salt Lake City?&#13;
PNI: Yeah, in Salt Lake City.&#13;
BH: Okay.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: I think until today, they’re still helping people who are other refugees.&#13;
BH: Okay. Let me see.&#13;
[baby makes noises]&#13;
BH: So, you mentioned that here in Logan, your husband has a job? What work does&#13;
he do?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
21&#13;
PNI: He works at JBS. He cuts meat. That’s what he does – JBS, yeah.&#13;
BH: Okay. And I think—so you mentioned in the refugee camps, your husband would&#13;
have to leave the camp to work? Was there like a specific job that he had? Or was&#13;
he leaving the camp to find a job?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, he had to look for work, you know, in the refugee camp – outside of&#13;
refugee camp, I mean.&#13;
BH: Wow.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[Baby shakes toy]&#13;
[43:38]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, it just really depends on the day. So, one day you find a job, then you get&#13;
paid. One day, if you can’t find a job, then you don’t get paid.&#13;
BH: So what kinds of jobs could be found in that way? What sorts of work could he&#13;
find?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, if it’s around May, then he would work as a, like in a cornfield, where he&#13;
has some kind of corn.&#13;
BH: Kind of seasonal—&#13;
PN: Yes&#13;
PNI: Yes, depends on –&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
22&#13;
BH: Whatever was available? Those kinds of things.&#13;
PNI: Yeah.&#13;
BH: Okay. Let’s see. Is there anything that you wish that the people of Logan knew&#13;
about you or your family? Or kind of your culture in general?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, I guess I don’t know, you know because, my family we’re from refugees,&#13;
you know, and we didn’t know about America a lot. And today we still don’t&#13;
know a lot about Americans I guess. We just kind of need help, you know. That’s&#13;
basically what she just said.&#13;
BH: Okay, so it’d be good if we could all find a way maybe to learn more about each&#13;
other, yeah?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, sometimes, I don’t know, if we’re in trouble or something – we just don’t&#13;
know what to do. We just kind of need a guide, I guess.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
[47:17]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, we’re just kind of a little scared and don’t understand a lot here, so it would&#13;
be nice just to get help.&#13;
BH: Okay, I think I have – I have one more question. Do you think you will ever go&#13;
back to Burma, to Karen State?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
23&#13;
PNI: Yeah, I guess I would want to go back and visit Burma, but I’m not a hundred&#13;
percent sure if I want to go back and live there permanently, you know. Yeah, I&#13;
just don’t have any plans yet for that.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: At the same time, I’m not a hundred percent sure if I want to live in the United&#13;
States forever either. So yeah, I’m just not planning yet.&#13;
BH: Mm-hmm.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: And the other reason for me to be staying here is for my children. They have a&#13;
better education here.&#13;
BH: I guess just one question going off of that – do you think you would ever want&#13;
your son here, who was born in America, do you think you would want him to see&#13;
the land where you came from and know that people and that language?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Yeah, like I said, I grew up as a refugee, and I wanted to go back to school but I&#13;
couldn’t. But now I’m here in United States. I want to give my children the&#13;
opportunity to go to school here, graduate, you know – have a better education&#13;
here. After then, I would like them to go back to Burma and help out other people&#13;
you know, to tell them what they learned; to give back to the people in Burma.&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: For me, I want to help my people you know, but I can’t. I know I can’t. But for&#13;
my children, yeah, sure they can one day.&#13;
BH: Well thank you. I think that’s all of my questions, but I want to see if either Wes&#13;
or Meagan – if they have any questions they’d like to ask, if that’s okay?&#13;
PN: Okay, I have a lot of time.&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
24&#13;
BH: See, your English is good!&#13;
[51:19]&#13;
WV: I guess I was kind of curious, if you’re not LDS – and I notice you have a picture&#13;
of the Logan temple up on the wall – what is your religious background if you’re&#13;
not LDS?&#13;
WVI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
PN: [responding in Karen]&#13;
PNI: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
PN: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, back to the refugee camp, I was Buddhist. My whole family was Buddhist.&#13;
But here, me, my husband and –&#13;
[speaks in Karen]&#13;
– and my oldest daughter, us three – we converted to LDS.&#13;
WV: Okay&#13;
BH: Okay&#13;
PNI: We already have, yeah.&#13;
PN: [speaking in Karen]&#13;
PNI: So I guess there are like four more left in my family, still isn’t LDS.&#13;
PN: [speaks in Karen]&#13;
PNI: Well, what I want to say is that it all depends on my daughters I guess. It doesn’t&#13;
matter what religions they choose. It’s all up to them. We don’t have any&#13;
objection to anything.&#13;
Cache&#13;
Valley&#13;
Refugee&#13;
Oral&#13;
History&#13;
Project:&#13;
Pyo&#13;
Nwe&#13;
Page&#13;
25&#13;
PN: [speaks in Karen]&#13;
PNI: For me, I chose it myself, to become LDS. It was my decision.&#13;
BH: Okay, any other questions? No? Well thank you. So I think that’s the end of our&#13;
interview. It is, it’s 11:58 AM, I don’t know if I mentioned, the starting time was&#13;
about 11:04 or 11:05. So thank you, Pyo Nwe, and your little son. So, thanks to&#13;
both of you.&#13;
PN: [laughs, responds in Karen]&#13;
[53:28]</text>
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                <text>Van de Water, Wes; 1989</text>
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                <text>Karen; Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City</text>
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                <text>Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 1&#13;
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT&#13;
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET&#13;
Interviewee(s): Eh Htoo&#13;
Present: Wes Van de Water, Eh Htoo, Chit Moe, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill&#13;
Place of Interview:&#13;
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015&#13;
Language(s): Karen&#13;
Translation:&#13;
Interviewer: Wes Van de Water&#13;
Interpreter: Chit Moe&#13;
Recordist: Meagan Gill&#13;
Photographer: Bethany Hanks&#13;
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone&#13;
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.&#13;
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 19, 2015&#13;
Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water, May 23, 2015&#13;
Brief Description of Contents: Eh Htoo talks about his life being born into war in the Karen state in Burma. He describes his life as a teenager: his father dying, and then being recruited as a porter for the Burmese military, and his subsequent escape into a refugee camp (Mae La) in Thailand. He talks about his life in Mae La camp: going to school and working to collect bamboo, before moving to the United States (first Salt Lake City, Utah, then Cache Valley, Utah).&#13;
Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water&#13;
WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator&#13;
EH = Eh Htoo&#13;
EHI = Eh Htoo’s words interpreted by translator&#13;
BH = Bethany Hanks&#13;
BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator&#13;
CM= Chit Moe&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 2&#13;
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION&#13;
[00:01]&#13;
WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us – oh, sorry; first off it is May 16th, 2015 (I almost said 2005)&#13;
[Laughter]&#13;
WV: It is six o’clock; we are here meeting with Eh Htoo. My name is Wes Van de Water, I’ll be doing the interview. Meagan Gill is recording, and Bethany Hanks is our photographer. And our translator for this interview is Chit Moe.&#13;
Okay, so Eh Htoo, if you wouldn’t mind, could you tell us your full name and the year that you were born?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: My name is Eh Htoo, and I was born in 1983.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And he is not sure what date (or days) he was born, but he only know –&#13;
WV: Knows the year?&#13;
EHI: Yeah.&#13;
WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us a bit about your family, where you’re from.&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: I came from Karen state (which is in Burma), but my family, my relatives – they are all in Burma right now, in Karen state.&#13;
WV: So your family is still in Burma then?&#13;
EH: Not Burma, Karen state.&#13;
EHI: It’s in Karen state, but it’s in Burma country.&#13;
WV: Oh, okay; got you – sorry, so your family is still over in Karen? So if your family is still in Karen, how did you wind up here in the United States?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 3&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So I became a refugee twice, based on my experience: once when I was born, and the other one was – which he hasn’t talked about it yet. Okay.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Oh, okay. So ever since he was born – no, I was born in 1983; ever since I was born, there was a war between Burmese military and the Karen military. I automatically became a refugee and went to a refugee camp ever since I was born. And in 1985, I came back to my Karen state –&#13;
EH: Ninety-five.&#13;
EHI: Oh, in 1985?&#13;
EH: Ninety-five.&#13;
EHI: 1995, I’m sorry. In 1995, I came back to my country because I heard there was peace, and it’s better to live in there. So I love my country, that’s why I want to go back.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So after I went back to my country (which is in Karen state), it wasn’t what I was expecting: there wasn’t any peace, and there was still war going on. And when I was 13 years old I became a soldier.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Okay, so not a soldier, but I was – [speaking in Karen]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Actually not a soldier, but I was forced to become a porter. And that happened –&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And that happened during the war, you know, so I had to carry bombs and stuff. Basically I was a porter – so they force you to become that – [speaking in Karen]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 4&#13;
EHI: So that happened once in 1995, and the other time was in 1998.&#13;
[04:59]&#13;
WV: So did you get out of the military then, and you became a refugee when you got out?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So the point is – okay, in 1998 I was 16 years old, okay? At that time I was still a porter, you know, I had to do stuff during the war. So there was one thought that came to me: “If I die during the war,” – before that, I have a mom and an older sister. Because they’re female, the military won’t take them as a porter; and I was only 16 years old, and I was the only boy in the family so I was forced to become a porter. And then I started thinking, “What if I die during the war? There is no point – I can’t repay my family, nor can I help them in any way.” So I started thinking, “It’s better for me to go to refugee camp, maybe study there; and that could be a possibility to help my family, or in any other ways.” Instead of, “What if I die in the war? That is bad.” And my thought is going to refugee camp is better for me. That’s why I went to the refugee camp.&#13;
WV: So you left your family there in the hopes that you might be able to help them, rather than staying in the military?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yes, that was his dream; his goal.&#13;
WV: So how long have you been here in the States then? When did you get here?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: In July it will be seven years in Utah.&#13;
WV: So have you been here, in Utah, the entire time? So when you first – or where was the camp that you were at when you first went to the refugee camp – where was that?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 5&#13;
EHI: It’s called Mae La camp – M-A L-A-E –&#13;
WV: M-A?&#13;
EHI: M-A L-A-E camp.&#13;
EH: M-A-E L-A&#13;
EHI: Oh, M-A-E L-A –&#13;
EH: M-A-E L-A: Mae La. M-A-E L-A –&#13;
WV: L-A?&#13;
EH: Yeah. Mae La.&#13;
EHI: And I believe this is the largest camp in Thailand.&#13;
EH: Yeah, largest camp.&#13;
WV: In Thailand?&#13;
EH: Yeah.&#13;
EHI: Um-hmm.&#13;
[08:03]&#13;
WV: So how long were in – is it Mae La? Is that how you say it?&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
WV: How long were you there?&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Almost nine years.&#13;
WV: And then how did you get out of the camp? How did you wind up coming over to the U.S.?&#13;
EHI: So from the camp to the United States?&#13;
WV: Yeah, from the camp.&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 6&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well the thing is, people from the United States, from other countries – they were, you know, coming to the refugee camp and wanted to take refugees to their country. And then I heard about it, so I applied for it; and then I applied for it on 2007, and I departed my camp in 2008.&#13;
WV: And did they relocate you straight here, to Cache Valley, or did you go somewhere else first?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: It was in Salt Lake.&#13;
WV: So that was first?&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yeah.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: He lived in Salt Lake for four months, and he moved to Logan after that.&#13;
WV: Okay. So what was your experience like in the camp? What was it like living there?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So my experience in the refugee camp was just like most people, you know: people were going to school – I wanted to go to school. But in my situation I didn’t get to know my dad – my dad died. Yeah, my dad died and my family couldn’t support me, you know; they couldn’t send me to school because I was only person living in the refugee camp. And like most students, they have free time after school you know, to go hang out; me, I didn’t have those time.&#13;
WV: So did you just work then, while you were in the camp? Is that all you had time to do was work, and not go to school?&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 7&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
CM: Can we pause this really quick? How do we do that?&#13;
[Recording pauses as Eh Htoo tells the children to leave the room]&#13;
WV: We good? Okay.&#13;
EHI: Well, I was a worker, and at the same time I was a student. I go to school for five days in the week days, and the weekend I work. You know, I need to work because I need to buy clothes, I need to buy candle, I need to buy books, I need to buy stuff, you know, to take care of myself: toothpaste, toothbrush; I mean, there is a whole list (I can’t name them all) –&#13;
WV: Right.&#13;
EHI: Those are the stuff I need, so I need to work on the weekend.&#13;
[12:23]&#13;
WV: So were food and clothes and those things not provided at this camp then?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yes, they did provide (for example) rice, salt, oil – stuff like that, you know, just for daily basics; but clothes and stuff, nobody is going to give us clothes or toothpaste, or any other things so I need to make money to buy those.&#13;
WV: So now that you’re here, in Utah, are you going to school, or are you working? Or both?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Like I said earlier, I was in Salt Lake for four months –&#13;
WV: Um-hmm.&#13;
EHI: And then after I move from Salt Lake to Logan, I started working here at JBS.&#13;
WV: So are you hoping to bring your family here, or do you want to go back to Burma, to your family? (Or Karen, excuse me.)&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 8&#13;
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well I do want my family to come here, you know, I do – but it’s not possible because my family, they grew up in the village and I don’t think they would like this place here, you know, Utah (not Utah, but in the United States). Although we have better education, better food, it’s not something they would like. And another thing is of course I want to go back home: all my family is back there, I want to go back home; but before I can go back I need to make sure that, you know, Karen state is safe and has protection. Right now that is not the case, so what I’m doing is I’m working – if I have a lot of money then I will send some to my family each month (or whenever I have extra money).&#13;
WV: So are you able to still keep in contact? Like do you either call or do you write your family back home?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well yes – I call my mom like every two months (or something like that), you know, I ask her how she’s doing and how is the situation in Karen state? Is it getting better? You know, just the surrounding situation in Karen state. So yeah, I do keep in contact with my family.&#13;
[15:58]&#13;
WV: So what is the situation like back in Karen? Is it, you know, is there still a lot of fighting there, or is it just still too unstable to go home?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So in Karen state, you know, I can’t say there is war right now, and I can’t say that there isn’t a war right now, or that war is going to occur in the future; I can’t say anything. It can’t be predicted.&#13;
EH: Yeah. [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So like I was saying, you know, I cannot tell whether there is a war or not because if there is people who have more power than me, then they will always suppress us; if there isn’t people like that, then it will be safer.&#13;
WV: So when do you hope to be able to go back home? I mean, do you think the situation will ever calm down enough that you can? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 9&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well so I do hope to go back there, but even if I were to go back, I would only stay there for one or two years – it won’t be permanent. If I were to go back there, you know, I want to help my family and the people that are in the village. You know, I want to teach them what’s the best way to live, how to survive – and only that will make me feel better (then I would come back here). Even if I were to stay, and even if there are lots of place to work at, but there isn’t any protection so I – yeah.&#13;
WV: So even if you go back to your family, you would still eventually come back to the States? I know you said that, “Because I grew up in a village, it might be hard for them to adjust here.” But do you think it might be better if they came back with you?&#13;
WVI: Say it again?&#13;
WV: Sorry, that was kind of a long question.&#13;
WVI: Yeah.&#13;
WV: Do you think even though they might prefer to stay in Burma, do you think you would try to bring them back with you when you came back to the states?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So yes, I tell my mom, you know, I want her to come here: it’s better for us, and our lives are guaranteed here, you know; but no, she just doesn’t want to live here. Well and the thing is that even though it’s not protected, you know, even though the state is in a war situation, my mom still wants to live there (even though she has to hide each day, it doesn’t matter; she believe that she can go through each day).&#13;
[20:27]&#13;
WV: So then what – I guess what do you plan on doing? I mean, do you plan on just going back periodically to visit, to help? Or what are your, I guess your plans after you’ve gone home?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 10&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well, yes. Let’s say as I go back to Burma, each time of course I will look at my surroundings (the situation). If it gets better – like if the Burmese military were, you know, not fighting other ethnic groups, not just Karen (and there are many, many ethnic groups in Burma) – so if the situation is better, and if they accept U.S. citizens, you know, to go and visit Burma (to get permission to live there for many years), then I would stay there like five or six years.&#13;
WV: So have you gotten your citizenship here, in the United States then?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yeah.&#13;
WV: How long did that take? Or what was that process like?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: It took about four months to become a citizen.&#13;
WV: Wow, that’s fast.&#13;
WVI: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So it took three months to apply for it, and then after that they will call me to go and scan my finger. And after that I took a test, and I passed. So, really quick.&#13;
WV: So did you learn English when you were – it was Thailand, right? Where the camp was?&#13;
WVI: Yeah.&#13;
WV: So did you learn English while you were there, or did you just pick it up when you got here, to the U.S.?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 11&#13;
EHI: So yes, I did go to school back in the refugee camp, so I did know basic English; but of course my accent was different from other people, and my English teacher wasn’t an English person. And when I got here I had to make an adjustment, you know, I had to learn the accent and try to relearn it all over again.&#13;
WV: So overall, did you have an easier time adjusting here? I mean, do you prefer living here – or was life, you know, okay in the camp?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
[24:13]&#13;
EHI: Well I prefer to live in United States, because living in Thailand – I wasn’t a Thai citizen; they didn’t accept me and it’s not my country. Here, they accept me as a U.S. citizen, so I would prefer to stay here.&#13;
WV: So you arrived in Salt Lake – did you move here, to Logan, for work?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Correct.&#13;
WV: I know there is a fairly large community here, how do you like living in Logan?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well it’s not the place that I like, you know, I think it depends on someone’s heart (I guess). You know if my heart is like living here, then yeah. So it depends on my – [speaks Karen] it depends on my heart I guess.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Some people doesn’t like to live here, but –&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So as long as there isn’t any war – as long as there isn’t any fighting then yeah, I don’t mind living in Logan.&#13;
WV: So you like it here because it’s peaceful? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 12&#13;
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yeah.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And another thing is everybody follow the rules here – they respect the rules. So, yeah.&#13;
WV: Were you raised with any particular religion?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Oh, okay. Well yes, I mean everybody grew up –&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Everybody grew up with a different religion, but for me it was different, you know: I grew up believing in nature, I would say. You know, like a mountain – they might have a mountain spirit; for water they might have a water spirit. So that’s what I believe in.&#13;
WV: So was that a more traditional belief in Karen?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So I think it’s not just for Karen people, you know, the religious tradition; it might also be for other people as well.&#13;
[27:08]&#13;
WV: Let me rephrase: so was that, I guess, a common belief there?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 13&#13;
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well yeah, that back then a lot of people in my village – they had the same belief as me, you know: they believe in nature in my village.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: But right now I think there aren’t many who still believe in nature because everywhere, you know, there are Christian, Buddhists, and it’s just surrounded by that particular religion (my religion); so there isn’t a lot of people who still believe in nature.&#13;
WV: It’s not as common these days?&#13;
EHI: No; yes.&#13;
WV: So I guess one thing that I’m curious about is if there is one thing that, you know, you could tell people (either, you know, in the area, or the U.S.) – like if there is one message that you would want for people to hear, what would it be?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So I think he is asking – there are many messages, but for what purpose?&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
WV: Okay, so from your experience, you know, what you’ve seen and what you’ve been through, if there is something that, you know, you want people to know (either about you or where you come from)?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
[30:17]&#13;
EHI: So basically, when I was 15 years old my dad died, and then after that (like I said) I was forced to become a porter. Because my mom and my sister was female, there was no way they could do that.&#13;
[Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 14&#13;
EHI: So he is saying that he doesn’t feel very comfortable like saying – it’s not he is not comfortable – he has to stop at a certain point for me to translate that, it’s just not coming out.&#13;
[Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well of course I had many bad experience, but I’d like to share two, particularly. One is that when I was 18 years old (it was in 1998) –&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: I mean 16 years old. Like I said, people were coming, taking us as porters. And because my mom and my sister was female, they couldn’t do it. And the thing is like each house has to go five weekdays to do a porter, and if we don’t go then they will charge us $100 each day if we don’t go. We didn’t have any money; we were so poor, so I had to go do it. Everybody was so big and old; I was the smallest to become a porter.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So you know, as I was doing porter – at the beginning I was told, “It’s only going to take ten days, and because you’re only like 16 years old we won’t put you in the front,” you know, “where there are higher chances of getting hit by the bullet.” That is what I was told, but that wasn’t the case, you know; it doesn’t matter you were young or old, I was put at the front. It doesn’t matter I was young or old, they gave me big bags, you know, (just like everybody) that I had to carry – they are all the same weight. And then what happened later was, because there was war going on, they told me at first that they were going to protect me and put me in the back, but that wasn’t the case. And after ten days – it’s because there was a war going on, they just couldn’t get any help and they didn’t protect me, or they can’t ask other people to come or take my place because I’m already, you know, at the front and it’s really dangerous to replace people. So, yeah.&#13;
[34:32]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So like I said, after ten days you know, I was hoping that people would replace me with the other bigger and stronger person, but they didn’t. And because I was so small, you know, the military didn’t think I would come up with a strategy or a way to escape the situation, but I did. I thought of it, I didn’t want to stay here, you know; it’s dangerous. So as war going on, because I was only 16 years old and the military didn’t think of me as anything – and that is also when I escaped from that place.&#13;
[Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 15&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Oh, and as I was escaping I didn’t go straight to the refugee camp, I went back to my home: to the Karen state.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So as I was escaping that place, you know, I also helped two old men. They were telling me that, “It’s dangerous, don’t escape this place,” you know, “there are bombs everywhere and you might get hit, so just don’t do it.” And then I said, “No, believe me; I’m going to walk at the front, so if there was a bomb then I would get hit first. Because I was so small, even if I get hit you guys can carry me with you. But if you guys get hit by the bomb, I can’t help with it.”&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
[37:39]&#13;
EHI: So you know, that day it was a run and there was when everything was quiet down, you know, the war is like kind of – everybody was resting. And at the same time we had a duty where we had to go and fill up water and bring it back to that place. And I told those two old men, “Don’t bring anything with you; just bring your clothes and a container to pretend like we’re going to swim to get water.” And that’s when I escaped from that place.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: As I was doing porter with the Burmese military and they were speaking Burmese and I was speaking Karen, and there was also some challenges between me and the Burmese military (because of language barrier).&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: In the process of escaping, you know, those two old men – they know the place and they know the roads; but at the same time they know there are bombs, but they don’t know where it is. So as we were escaping, they showed me where to go, you know, they showed me this is the way back home. So I thought that, “Let’s say if this is the road, of course there are going to be bombs.” So what I did was I kind of walked in a place where people won’t usually going to walk on it. So that’s how I escaped through those bombs.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Let’s say from the place where there is war going on, and the place to my house it would take about a day to walk; but because I had to try to avoid those bombs, it took about one and a half or two days. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 16&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: The distance is about from here to Bear Lake.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
[40:38]&#13;
EHI: So as soon as I get to my village, you know, I went to ask those people who told me that it’s going to take ten days and I won’t be put at the front, and then I went straight to them (it was in the evening-ish), I went to see them and was going to ask them those questions, you know.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: You know, the person that told me it’s going to take ten days, and I won’t be put at the front was like a leader in the village, you know; he is like – he is really old and he is really nice. I went to him and ask him, “Why was I put at the front, and why does it take longer than ten days? And why didn’t you replace me with other people?” So that leader, you know, that old man (that leader) – he told me, “I’m really glad that you escaped that place. I didn’t think that anybody would come up with a strategy to escape that place, because we don’t have anybody back here to replace any of you out there.” So he was glad that I escaped that place.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Starting then, starting from the time I escaped – you know, as I was thinking, “Although I escaped that place, they’re going to come back and force me to become a porter again. And if they do that each time, of course I am going to get older and older. And as I get older they’re going to, you know, force me to do much, much heavy work and much, much harder things.” So I decided, “It’s no use living here,” you know, “If I die out there, it won’t benefit me or my family or my people.”&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: As I was coming up with those thoughts, I ended up in a refugee camp.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Like what I said earlier, I asked my mom, saying that I’m going to go to a refugee camp to live, and she’s like, “Okay, you can go then.”&#13;
[43:40]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 17&#13;
EHI: So before I left my village, you know, I asked my mom for permission. She said, “Okay, you can go.” But before my left, my mom told me, “Son,” you know, “you can go there; you can go to the refugee camp, but I cannot support. Of course they’re going to give you pencil, books to go to school, maybe food – but if you want any other particular things, you know, such as good clothes or any other thing, there is no way I can support you. So if you want to go, just think about – just keep that in mind.”&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And like I said earlier, I go to school for five days and I work on the weekend, and that’s how I support myself because I didn’t have any help back then.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Before I got to the refugee camp I already knew someone, and fortunately he went to the – there is like a place you have to put your name to get food – and he went ahead and put my name on the list, you know, saying that I’m going to be coming, I’m going to get some food. And yeah, I liked that idea, but in order for me to get food that person had to lie for me, you know; he said that my parents were dead, and I had to live that way. I didn’t like lying, but I had to lie to get food. I had to say that my parents are gone, and that’s one of the ways to get help, I guess.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Okay well like I said, in that program if you tell that your parents are gone – well in this case my dad was really gone, but my mom isn’t – then they put my name saying that my parents are gone, and in this case they will help me for 20 years (that was the promise). They gave me umbrella, toothpaste, toothbrush –&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Soap and shampoo, and a candle to study (so I can see in the dark).&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And they gave us those every year (once a year).&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Okay, actually it’s not like that – for umbrella they give it once a year, but for the other five items, they give it every month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 18&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And I’m really, really thankful for that, and you know, for helping me and giving me those items (those are really needed).&#13;
[47:55]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: That’s pretty much the end of my story, I guess. Like I was saying, I go to school five days, I work in the weekends. My work is – I woke up at three in the morning – my work is dependent on the season I guess. If people were selling this particular item this three months, and I will have to do the same thing. So what I have done was at three a.m. I went out in the deep forest and looking for bamboos (like small bamboos), and I have to you know, it could be rainy, it’s dangerous, I have boots and it was kind of dangerous. But yeah, I won’t get home until five p.m. in the evening, so it’s all day work.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So bamboos are really heavy, you know; each day the most I can get is about 60 kilogram – [speaking to Eh Htoo] Kilogram?&#13;
EH: Um-hmm.&#13;
EHI: But the way that people are buying it, they buy it one gram is one dollar – not one dollar, but one Bahts in Thai money; so I would get about 60 Bahts a day.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And that takes all day long: from three a.m., to five p.m.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And if we were to compare it with U.S. dollar, it would be two dollars a day.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: And that would take around ten hours (I think) – ten hours of work.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well this is pretty much it about my story. Of course there are other things, but they are not really important or significant.&#13;
WV: Thank you for sharing. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 19&#13;
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]&#13;
EH: Thank you.&#13;
WV: So that’s about all the questions that I have. Meagan or Bethany, do either of you have questions for Eh Htoo?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]&#13;
BH: I did think of a couple&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yeah, no problem.&#13;
BH: You mentioned – well you talked a lot about escaping from the military – was that a common thing? Were there many people that escaped?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well it really depends, you know. For people who sees things different like, “This place isn’t right, we have to escape,” then yeah – it’s possible for them to escape that place; but for people who fear that “There are bombs, there are military, they are going to catch you” – then I don’t think they will ever come up with a thought of escaping that place.&#13;
BH: What would have happened had they caught you while you were trying to escape?&#13;
BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well for me (I was only 16 years old), so even if they caught me it won’t be much of a problem; but for those two old man – yeah, it’s a big problem.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
[53:25]&#13;
EHI: Well yeah, even if – let’s say the people were trying to escape and they got hit by the bomb, it just cause a problem for that leader in the village camp, and it cause a problem for the military as well. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 20&#13;
BH: Oh, thank you.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
MG: Good?&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: He is saying it doesn’t matter what country it is, but refugee occur mostly just like this, you know, because some country are not stable because there is war going on, there is no protection for people. I guess that’s how most refugee occur.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: He wants to ask you guys a question now.&#13;
BH: Sure.&#13;
EHI: So do you guys think that the more refugee we have, is that a better thing or not? Is that a better thing or not?&#13;
WV: Do we think it’s good that we have more refugees here, in the States?&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: So he is saying around the world – the whole world. Is it better if there isn’t any refugees? Or is it better if there is some refugees?&#13;
WV: Well I mean, for me at least, I wish there didn’t have to be.&#13;
WVI: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
WV: I would much rather have people be in a place where they are safe.&#13;
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: As you were saying, you know, you want people to have peace and you know, no refugees; but is there a way for that to happen?&#13;
WV: I don’t know; hopefully some day.&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 21&#13;
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]&#13;
[55:58]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Do you know why there are refugees these days?&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: The whole world, yeah. Do you know why there are refugees?&#13;
WV: You mean still?&#13;
EHI: Yeah, still? Or why did they even happen in the first place?&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
Yeah, like why did it occur? I don’t know.&#13;
WV: I wish I had an answer; I don’t know. It’s just some people do what they want, regardless of the price to others; there is no real reason for it.&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the answer in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Responding in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well I have an answer; I think you know, it’s because of three reasons why there are refugees: one is because of business and economy; secondly it is because of religious; thirdly it is because of politics.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: That’s what I think.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well I think those are the answer, but I don’t know which is the right answer. I don’t know how to solve this problem either. But I just hope that, you know, people who has more power could maybe come up with an idea to get rid of this, I guess.&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 22&#13;
EHI: Yeah, I’m sure that those are the three reasons why refugees occur. I really hope, you know, people who have more power can help, or maybe other countries can help.&#13;
WV: Well and I agree that I think those are the causes; but as far as, you know, I don’t think there is a good reason why people do those things (is what I was trying to say).&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Well for my conclusion, I guess, of course I have many other things I want to share with you guys (but I don’t think there is enough time) – let’s say if I were to graduate from here in the States, you know, and let’s say if I was invited to the White House just to talk about these issues – it would be nice. But currently I am nobody, I don’t have an education; so yeah, I just don’t have the power or hope to even say that, talk about those issues.&#13;
WV: Well that’s one of the reasons why we’re here, and why we are doing this. You know, we are one school, but our hope is that we can help you get your story out there, so that maybe we can do something.&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]&#13;
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]&#13;
EHI: Yeah.&#13;
WV: So thank you for giving us the chance, and for talking with us.&#13;
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]&#13;
WV: I think we’re good.&#13;
[End recording – 60:25]</text>
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Page&#13;
1&#13;
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT&#13;
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET&#13;
Interviewee: Aye Win&#13;
Present: Aye Win, Meagan Gill, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Bethany&#13;
Hanks&#13;
Place of Interview: Aye Win’s home in Logan, Utah&#13;
Date of Interview: May 19, 2015&#13;
Language(s): Karen; English&#13;
Translation:&#13;
Interviewer: Meagan Gill&#13;
Interpreter: Chit Moe&#13;
Recordist: Bethany Hanks&#13;
Photographer: Wes Van de Water&#13;
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-&#13;
18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic&#13;
microphone&#13;
Transcription Equipment:&#13;
Transcribed by: Meagan Gill, May 25, 2015&#13;
Transcript Proofed by: Meagan, May 26, 2015&#13;
Brief Description of Contents: Aye Win describes her life in a refugee camp and in&#13;
Burma before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the&#13;
Thailand refugee camp and the difference between her homeland and her home here in&#13;
the United States. Aye Win also talks about her family, English classes, holidays in the&#13;
camp and out of the camp, and keeping in contact with her friends from the refugee&#13;
camp.&#13;
Reference: MG = Meagan Gill&#13;
MGI = Meagan Gill interpreted by translator&#13;
AW = Aye Win&#13;
AWI = Aye Win interpreted by translator&#13;
WV = Wes Van de Water&#13;
WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
Page&#13;
2&#13;
BH = Bethany Hanks&#13;
BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator&#13;
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false&#13;
starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to&#13;
transcript are noted with brackets.&#13;
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION&#13;
[00:01]&#13;
MG: Today is May 19, 2015. Its 1:07. My name is Meagan I am here with Bethany&#13;
Hanks, doing uh…audio (laughing), and Wes Van de Water, he’s taking pictures&#13;
today. We are students from Utah State University working on an oral history&#13;
project, refugees for Cache Valley. And today I am interviewing Aye Win.&#13;
Thanks for letting us interview you today. Can I have you state your full name&#13;
and birth year for me please?&#13;
AW: My name is Aye Win. Uh, my birthday May 1, 1974.&#13;
MG: K. Thanks. And what languages do you speak?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: I speak Karen &amp; Burmese.&#13;
MG: K. Tell me about your family?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Can you rephrase that. A she’s not getting that question.&#13;
MG: Um…Tell me about your parents &amp; spouse &amp; children &amp; where they are at?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[laughing]&#13;
AWI: Okay. Well, she’s still not understanding your question I guess. Well, she told me&#13;
that um... our family, my family came here for education purposes.&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
Page&#13;
3&#13;
[laughing]&#13;
[2:30]&#13;
MG: Okay.&#13;
AWI So you might want to ask in a different way I guess.&#13;
MG: Okay, sure. Start with how many children do you have?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Four, four.&#13;
MG: Okay. And do you have any other family with you here?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: No&#13;
MG: Okay. Can you describe the ethnic or religious community that you belong to if&#13;
any?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: My religious is Buddhist and that’s it.&#13;
MG: Okay. Can you tell me about your birth country?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: From Burma. I was born in Burma.&#13;
MG: How long did you live there?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[3:44]&#13;
AWI: About fifteen years.&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
Page&#13;
4&#13;
MG: K. And why did you leave?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: When or why?&#13;
MG: Why?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[4:19]&#13;
AWI: Well, uh when I was little you know um, I just kinda follow my parents I guess.&#13;
And there were Burmese military everywhere you know. They come to our&#13;
village they were attacking us and me I just follow my parents. We had to sleep in&#13;
a forest for three or five days. And then when we come back I’m just going back&#13;
with them so that’s why I think I…that’s why I left Burma.&#13;
MG: Okay. And after the forest where did you go?&#13;
AWI: Going back home.&#13;
MG: Back home to?&#13;
AWI: To village. Okay.&#13;
MG: To village.&#13;
[4:55]&#13;
AWI: So the…the Burmese military come attack everybody in the village so to escape&#13;
that we went to the forest. We slept there for a few days then when…you know&#13;
things quiet down we come back to our village again.&#13;
MG: Okay. And what was your experience like in a refugee camp?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
Page&#13;
5&#13;
[5:49]&#13;
AWI: [clears throat] Well, my experience in refugees, um. Well, my experience in&#13;
refugee camp I got married and um...I had one children in refugee camp and back&#13;
then I wanted to go back home to visit Burma. But I was so scared that I’d…I’d&#13;
never get a chance to go back.&#13;
[laughing]&#13;
MG: Okay. Can you tell me about the food and medical care you received in the camp?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[7:03]&#13;
AWI: Um. Well, yes we…we do receive food and medical care in the refugee camp, but&#13;
for a pregnant women when I was pregnant back then. Um, we had like people&#13;
what organization who are called AMI, IRC, they like come every week and give&#13;
us…give the pregnant woman um…some like five eggs um…one bottle of oil and&#13;
then one bag of beans. So, you know just to keep the pregnant ladies healthy. So,&#13;
yeah if you…you were about to give birth and they’d take you to like…they’d&#13;
keep you at a hospital so like…they’d admit you to the hospital so that you can&#13;
stay and give birth. So, yeah.&#13;
[camera clicking]&#13;
MG: Did you work or go to school in the camp at all?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[8:17]&#13;
AWI: Yeah, well when I was small I did go to school uh…I went to school for four days&#13;
and that’s it. And after I got married I just never got a chance to go to school&#13;
again because I had to take care of my kids you know. And I ran eh uh…a little&#13;
shop in a refugee camp and I kinda sell stuff. Groceries.&#13;
MG: K. What were the day to day living conditions like in the camp like?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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AWI: Well, um…for…for guys, you know [clear throat] uh…for day to day they’d go&#13;
outside of camp and go and uh…plant corn, pick chilies, but for a woman&#13;
they’d…they’d stay home and take care of kids. And if they’d have more time&#13;
they’d also go outside of the camp and do the same thing as the guys.&#13;
MG: Okay. And did you celebrate any holy days, holidays in the camp?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes. Like Karen New Year we have Karen New Year and Christmas day and&#13;
those kinds of holidays.&#13;
[10:09]&#13;
MG: Okay. Did you use any special like decorations or were you able to get any kind&#13;
of presents for the holidays?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes, for Christmas we…we do. I did receive gifts like from a friend and then I&#13;
kinda have to give it back. Like you know from friend to friend thing. So, yes.&#13;
MG: K. What was the political climate like in the camp?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[laughing]&#13;
AWI: Um I…I don’t know.&#13;
[laughing]&#13;
MG: K. Did you feel safe in the camp?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yeah, um I mean I do like living in a refugee camp, but it just uh…sometimes like&#13;
we you know just kinda have to live with fears I guess. Cuz you had to be afraid&#13;
of the Burmese soldiers. You know they’ll kind of…will come your burn…will&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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come and burn the…the refugee camp cuz they do that all the time. Or sometimes&#13;
we had be afraid of Burmese military and the Karen military they were fighting&#13;
each other and we were…I was afraid I might get hit. So yeah.&#13;
[camera clicking]&#13;
MG: How did you learn about the U.S refugee program?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[13:26]&#13;
AWI: Okay, well so. Well, so…so you know I didn’t learn huh…well I so…the thing is&#13;
so…when I was let’s say teenagers age. Around teenagers age um…um…the&#13;
Burmese military were coming and forcing people to you know forcing people to&#13;
become a potter. And they were looking for especially like…like…eighteen to&#13;
seventeen years old man or woman. Both man and woman. So, you know I…me&#13;
and my friend we were just really scared. We were like uh…it’s not safe to live in&#13;
here anymore. Let’s just go to Thailand. Let’s just cross the border. So, yeah we&#13;
decided…we went to Thailand and we stay in a city. In the city uh…it’s more like&#13;
a town. It’s called The-wa-fa. We stay in that city. We stay there for a few months&#13;
picking corn, chilies.&#13;
[translator interrupts]&#13;
AWI: You guys want to write that [laughing]? T. h.e…the wa dablu o wa. How do you&#13;
spell? Wa. [laughing] Thaw.&#13;
AWI continued: Yeah, we stay there for a…just a few months doing daily things.&#13;
Picking chilies, planting corn. And it was nice. But then after…after um…I can’t&#13;
remember the date, but the Burmese military and the Karen military were in they&#13;
were in conflict…conflicts. And they were fighting each other and then that…that&#13;
war went straight for three days and three nights. So, me and my friend were&#13;
really scared you know because of what was going on around us. So…and a lot of&#13;
people died that…in those three days and so...and everybody was running you&#13;
know just running for their lives. So…so…what can I do I just kind of follow&#13;
everybody where they’re going and…and me I ended up in a refugee camp and&#13;
so…I guess that’s how I learned about refugee camp.&#13;
MG: Okay. And how did you apply and who helped you get to the U.S?&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[cut in audio]&#13;
[16:55]&#13;
AWI: Well, yeah there isn’t anybody to help, but it’s not hard. It’s not a difficult process&#13;
to…to come to the United States. You know, you just have to fill out an&#13;
application and they’ll call your names you know. Hey, so you’re um…set to go&#13;
to United States. That’s what they’ll tell you, but the thing is um…I…I did not&#13;
know that you know I have to pay rent, utility bills, insurance bills. Everything&#13;
you know. But in…in compared to refugees’ camp or Burma you don’t pay&#13;
anything. You have a house you stay, you do what you want. Nothing is…you&#13;
don’t have to pay anything basically, but here its different you know. In order you&#13;
know in order to let you…you had to pay rent and things and stuff. So, yeah.&#13;
MG: K. Tell me about coming to the United States? When did you first arrive here?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Um… I…I got here on June 9, 2008.&#13;
MG: And where did you first come…come to?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AW: Salt Lake City&#13;
AWI: In Salt Lake.&#13;
MG: Okay. What were the first months like?&#13;
[18:24]&#13;
AWI: Well, we didn’t like it you know. We don’t speak the language. We don’t know&#13;
what to do or where to go. Or we don’t like…like clueless. So, no we didn’t like&#13;
the first month.&#13;
MG: Okay. Did you receive any help from the U.S. or religious organizations when&#13;
you got here?&#13;
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MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[19:18]&#13;
AWI: Yes. Um…so when I first arrive in the United States I…I did went…went to…to&#13;
the church for a few months I guess. And like during Christmas they will come&#13;
buy my child like a shoes, like boots and stuff. So yes we…I did received help&#13;
from the religious church.&#13;
[19:34]&#13;
MG: Okay. Did you get help from any other organizations?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes. There is another organization called IRC and that’s where we came like, we&#13;
had to go through their office…not office, but we had to go through like,&#13;
applications and stuff. And they were the ones that bring us here you know. And&#13;
they had to take care of us for three months. There yeah, there was like their&#13;
promise or something. So we receive plates and blankets, and kind of a lot of stuff&#13;
from them. Yeah.&#13;
MG: Okay. [clear throat] How long have you lived in Cache Valley?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: About six and a half years.&#13;
MG: K. And what do you do here?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[20:54]&#13;
AWI: Um…[clear throat] Well, before um…I used to work at elementary school. I&#13;
kinda, but I already quit that job, but now because I have a little child to take care&#13;
of. I can just stay home. Yeah.&#13;
MG: Okay. What’s it like for you and your family here?&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: I guess we um…Well, we are surviving here day to day and that is good. We get&#13;
pay you know my dad. My husband. [laughing] He works at JBS and um…then&#13;
we get pay every two weeks. We use those money to pay rent to pay utility bills.&#13;
It’s all gone. We get it again. It just kinda go in circles. Yeah.&#13;
[22:02]&#13;
MG: Okay. Do you feel included in the Logan community?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[22:22]&#13;
AWI: Um…not really. Because you know I don’t speak English. So, yeah. [laughing]&#13;
MG: Alright. What would make you feel more included in the community?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: [laughing] Uh, I don’t know.&#13;
[22:51]&#13;
MG: Okay. Tell me about your home her. How’s it different from your home in your&#13;
birth country?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[23:32]&#13;
AWI: Um, so it’s really different. Um, here um…I mean back in Burma you know&#13;
where my birth country is. You kinda live. The only thing you…you have to fear&#13;
is that the Burmese military. Other than that you don’t actually have any worries.&#13;
You don’t have to worry about rent, bills, or food. You can kinda go out work.&#13;
You get pay. You can either by like I know small stuff…just kinda go day to day&#13;
without a lot of worries. But here you kinda have to kinda think of everything.&#13;
Think of: Oh, I need to have this much to pay for my rent. So…here you just kind&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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of think…think of financial situation here you know. You can’t you…just have to&#13;
keep in mind that it’s different from your home here. So, I guess that’s the&#13;
difference.&#13;
[24:40]&#13;
MG: Okay. Can you tell me your experiences with your landlord?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[25:06]&#13;
AWI: Well, this well…the current manager well…call him manager because she’s the&#13;
manager of the land. She’s really nice you know. Let’s say something wrong with&#13;
our house we…I can…I can go there and be like: Hey something is wrong. But&#13;
although I don’t speak English she will come and look at it herself and that’s&#13;
really nice, but the previous manager kinda not that nice. So good experience.&#13;
MG: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, your family, or&#13;
your ethnic group:&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: [laughing] I don’t know. [laughing]&#13;
MG: Mmm…let’s see. Would you like to go back to your country?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes, um… my dad is…my dad is still in Burma. And I want to go back. I just&#13;
don’t have the money to go back yet. So, yeah. One day.&#13;
MG: Would you ever go back to live?&#13;
[26:52]&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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AWI: Well, it’s something that I have thought of…going back and staying there&#13;
permanently. But I’m not sure yet because my children are still going to school&#13;
and you know I still have to be here and support them. So, but yeah. Not sure.&#13;
MG: What are you most proud of?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[27:57]&#13;
AWI: Well, uh my children they have a...you know better life here than I did back then.&#13;
So, I’m really happy for that and now Chit Moe, that’s me [laughing], uh…going&#13;
to college is really good thing I guess you know. I’m happy to see my child get to&#13;
go to college and that’s just had never happened in my family.&#13;
MG: Nice. What are your dreams for the future?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[28:57]&#13;
AWI: For my future dream I would say for every for my four childrens I really want&#13;
them to have education. I really want them to have knowledge you know. Even if&#13;
me and my husband die I’m sure they would still be able to live and support&#13;
themselves with what they learned you know. So, yeah. [laughing]&#13;
MG: Okay. Would you ever like to go to school again?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes. I am planning on taking English classes at ELC soon because I failed citizen&#13;
test two times already. So, I feel the need of taking it…taking the English class&#13;
again.&#13;
MG: Okay.&#13;
AWI: Okay.&#13;
[29:54]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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MG: Do you have any favorite activities to do here in Logan?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[30:44]&#13;
AWI: I’m not sure. [laughing] I don’t know. I guess, I mean there are a lot of things to&#13;
do in Logan, but...Yeah, so.&#13;
MG: Okay. Well, is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you’d like to tell us?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Well, no. Not really, but I’m just thankful for you guys being here and doing&#13;
interview. So. [laughing]&#13;
MG: That’s all of my questions. Do you mind if my colleagues…if they have any&#13;
questions they can ask you?&#13;
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
[signaled in the positive]&#13;
BH: Um…I have some questions. So, I was wondering about these um…the lights up&#13;
here. Are they just decoration…you just like having them up?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yeah, just for decorations and we keep that for Christmas. [laughing]&#13;
BH: I bet they look nice. Um…&#13;
AWI: No go ahead.&#13;
BH: That actually reminds me of a question I had. So you…you mentioned that you’re&#13;
Buddhist and in the camps though, you celebrate Christmas. Is that a holiday that&#13;
um…Buddhist’s normally celebrate? I just wonder.&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
Page&#13;
14&#13;
[32:54]&#13;
AWI: Yes, uh…like I say I was a Buddhist back in refugee camp, but I have friends who&#13;
are not Buddhist you know. They celebrate Christmas and I don’t want to be&#13;
stranger or anything. So, just kind of you know were friends. So, yeah Christmas.&#13;
So, that’s how that happened.&#13;
BH: Okay. And you still celebrate Christmas?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes, and it’s still for the same reasons. Have friends heres and sometimes they&#13;
come and celebrate. Um… likes with Karen um…I don’t know. Well, she hasn’t&#13;
talked this, but it’s from my…no…never mind…no.&#13;
[signaled to go ahead]&#13;
Um…so Karen I think every Christmas like, especially with their Christianity&#13;
they…they will go house to house and play music with their guitar. Like a group&#13;
of Karen…like big group and they will come to your door and sing. So, it’s just&#13;
kind of…does…did you guys do that? Or?&#13;
[MG, BH, and WV answer at once]&#13;
MG: Caroling.&#13;
MG, BH, and WV: Yeah.&#13;
BH: Christmas caroling.&#13;
WV: Caroling.&#13;
AWI: Oh really, okay. So that’s not strange yeah.&#13;
BH: Mmm…hmm. Usually, just without a guitar.&#13;
AWI: But it’s with a guitar. Yeah.&#13;
BHI: It’s with a guitar.&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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15&#13;
AWI: Yeah.&#13;
BH: So, why a guitar?&#13;
AWI: Well, so you can sing better. You can follow the tone or something. [laughing] I&#13;
don’t know. I’ve just never been to one. Um, like back…back in refugee camp&#13;
you know we had uh…we had people like Christianity there they come to our&#13;
house they and help us. So, it’s only polite for me to you know help them back.&#13;
So, yup.&#13;
MG: K.&#13;
BH: Um…sorry I’m just really curious about this guitar. Um… do people have guitars&#13;
in the refugee camps?&#13;
AWI: I can answer that. Yes.&#13;
BH: Was there a lot of music there?&#13;
AWI: Yes.&#13;
BH: Like what kinds of music? Was it like um…popular songs? I don’t know like&#13;
maybe American songs? Or was it like its traditional?&#13;
AWI: It’s mostly either Burmese songs or Karen songs. Like the...you know, like the top&#13;
ten songs. [conversation in Karen] I’m doing it. Well, yeah they…we have lot of&#13;
songs and going back to the Christmas thing you like know, like in a refugee&#13;
camp when there’s like people going to house to house to sings there’s just gonna&#13;
be lots of people kinda follow up. You know kinda join the group to do the same&#13;
thing. So.&#13;
[laughing]&#13;
BH: It sounds like a good time.&#13;
AWI: Right.&#13;
[36:10]&#13;
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WV: Um…I’m just kind of curious who is the man in that photo up on the wall in that&#13;
chair?&#13;
AWI: On the left?&#13;
WV: Uh…uh, the bigger one. The guy in the…what looks like brown robes.&#13;
WVI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Its what his name is Thaminya. He is a…a… a highly…everybody knows person&#13;
in Buddhist religions.&#13;
WV: Okay.&#13;
AWI: And he’s… he’s the monk in Burma and he’s rally um…you know. But there’s&#13;
just I guess, so many things that happen to him that are miracle or something.&#13;
Like, I don’t know if this trues…truth or not it maybe a myth, but like when he&#13;
die. Well, he’s dead already and, but his…his fingernails are still growing. So, it’s&#13;
just weird. I guess you know he just kind of have supernatural power or&#13;
something and may people Buddhist…. Yeah. And it is true right. This particular&#13;
person you know he…he’s still in Burma although he died many, many years ago.&#13;
His corpse is still there and it’s not being… how do I say it?&#13;
BH: It’s not decomposed?&#13;
AWI: It’s not decomposing. Yeah. It’s not.&#13;
WV: Did they preserve it? Like, did they do anything to…?&#13;
AWI: Like they probably. Nobody knows whether they preserve it or not. It’s under&#13;
military control and nobody knows. Like government control. I think they&#13;
probably did. Come on. [laughing] K. Yeah.&#13;
[38:04]&#13;
BH: I have one more question. This is something I’ve been curious about cuz it sounds&#13;
like in the refugee camps um…you can meet with a lot of people. There are a lot&#13;
of people around. So, um…did you have a lot of friends in the refugee camp?&#13;
People that you would meet with a lot?&#13;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win&#13;
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes. I had lots of friends in refugee camp. Yeah.&#13;
BH: Are there any that came here to the United States as well?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes, but they’re not in Utah. They’re in different states within the Unites States.&#13;
So.&#13;
BH: Are you able to keep in contact with any of them?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes, um…we kinda...we kinda call each other you know. Friends to friends just&#13;
like everybody would do. But, mostly what we all concern about: How…how is&#13;
life doing over there? But, everybody wants to go back home. So, basically.&#13;
BH: Back home to Burma?&#13;
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]&#13;
AWI: Yes, to Burma. But, in Karen State particularly. To that state, yeah.&#13;
BH: Cool. Thank you.&#13;
AWI: Good?&#13;
MG: Thank you.&#13;
AW: Thank you.&#13;
[End recording-39:52]</text>
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            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="92497">
                <text>Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="92498">
                <text>An inventory for this collection can be found at : &lt;a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67608"&gt;http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67608&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project Digital Collection</text>
              </elementText>
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          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="92500">
                <text>Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="92501">
                <text>Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 58</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="92502">
                <text>Eh Htoo--Photographs;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="50">
            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="92503">
                <text>Eh Htoo and Chit Moe wait for the next interview question</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="51">
            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="92504">
                <text>Image; Still Image;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
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    </elementSetContainer>
    <tagContainer>
      <tag tagId="60">
        <name>Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project</name>
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    </tagContainer>
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