Tun Lay--Photographs;
Tun Lay is answering a question asked by Bethany during the interview process.
Tun Lay, 1958-
Gill, Meagan
Chit Moe
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 58
Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library
Hanks, Bethany
Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67608
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project Digital Collection
Photographs;
image/jpeg;
996665 Bytes
eng; kar
Image; Still Image;
Karen State; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake Couty, Utah; United States; Logan, Cache Valley, Utah, United States;
Bethany Hanks, Pyo Nwe, Justin, Chit Moe, & Wes Van de Water
Pyo Nwe--Photographs;
Group shot of the interview process, standing view looking down on the group.
Pyo Nwe, 1978-
1234004 Bytes
Karen State; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake Couty, Utah, United States; Logan, Cache Valley, Utah, United States;
Tun Lay holds his guitar that he plays for religious services on Sundays; picture has more light.
684165 Bytes
Picture of Tun Lay’s Karen flag that is on his living room wall.
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Pyo Nwe & Chit Moe discussing an answer to a question asked by Bethany in her living room.
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Profile shot of Pyo Nwe during interview, more light.
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Profile shot of Pyo Nwe during interview, more dark.
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Pyo Nwe thinking during the interview process.
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Pyo Nwe during the interview process, more light.
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Eritrea; Seltene; Tigrinya; Refugee; Malta; US Refugee Program; Cache Valley; Library of Congress; Fieldschool; Voices of Refugees Project;
Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Seltene and Berhane Reading the Release Forms Provided in Tigrinya.
Gebretinsa, Seltene
Olsen, Magen 1986-
Abraha, Berhane 1980-
Warner-Evans, Hilary
Warner-Evans
889336 Bytes
eng, tir
Eritrea, Africa; Malta; New York, United States; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States;
Hilary and Seltene Prepare for Interview
Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Photographs taken before the beginning of the recording so as not to distract the audio.
938375 Bytes
Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Berhane notes here that the Tigrinya translation is using a defunct form of the language, indicating that the translator is likely Ethiopian.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Berhane translates the question Hilary just asked to Seltene.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Hilary asks about life in Eritrea.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Seltene speaks softly of his life in Eritrea.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Hilary is out of shot asking a question for Berhane to translate to Seltene.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, While Berhane translates, Seltene sits silently.
902088 Bytes
Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Landscape Portrait of Seltene for archives.
907065 Bytes
Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Vertical Portrait of Seltene for archives.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Seltene is filling out the release forms in his native language.
1154497 Bytes
Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Berhane talking again about the translation of the release forms and showing examples of words that are no longer recognized in modern Eritrean Tigrinya.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Hilary is signing the Tigrinya copy of the release forms and requires some translation from Berhane.
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Temple Fork Room of Logan Public Library, Berhane reads the forms to Seltene because the translation is difficult.
1062986 Bytes
Karen State, Burma, Refugee camp, Immigration, Family, Languages, School, Citizenship test.
Aye Win describes her life in Karen State, Burma. Along with her time in a refugee camp in Thailand, how she came to the U.S., her family, and life in Cache Valley, Utah.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Aye Win Present: Aye Win, Meagan Gill, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Bethany Hanks Place of Interview: Aye Win’s home in Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 19, 2015 Language(s): Karen; English Translation: Interviewer: Meagan Gill Interpreter: Chit Moe Recordist: Bethany Hanks Photographer: Wes Van de Water Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG- 18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Transcribed by: Meagan Gill, May 25, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Meagan, May 26, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Aye Win describes her life in a refugee camp and in Burma before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the Thailand refugee camp and the difference between her homeland and her home here in the United States. Aye Win also talks about her family, English classes, holidays in the camp and out of the camp, and keeping in contact with her friends from the refugee camp. Reference: MG = Meagan Gill MGI = Meagan Gill interpreted by translator AW = Aye Win AWI = Aye Win interpreted by translator WV = Wes Van de Water WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 2 BH = Bethany Hanks BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] MG: Today is May 19, 2015. Its 1:07. My name is Meagan I am here with Bethany Hanks, doing uh…audio (laughing), and Wes Van de Water, he’s taking pictures today. We are students from Utah State University working on an oral history project, refugees for Cache Valley. And today I am interviewing Aye Win. Thanks for letting us interview you today. Can I have you state your full name and birth year for me please? AW: My name is Aye Win. Uh, my birthday May 1, 1974. MG: K. Thanks. And what languages do you speak? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: I speak Karen & Burmese. MG: K. Tell me about your family? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Can you rephrase that. A she’s not getting that question. MG: Um…Tell me about your parents & spouse & children & where they are at? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [laughing] AWI: Okay. Well, she’s still not understanding your question I guess. Well, she told me that um... our family, my family came here for education purposes. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 3 [laughing] [2:30] MG: Okay. AWI So you might want to ask in a different way I guess. MG: Okay, sure. Start with how many children do you have? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Four, four. MG: Okay. And do you have any other family with you here? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: No MG: Okay. Can you describe the ethnic or religious community that you belong to if any? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: My religious is Buddhist and that’s it. MG: Okay. Can you tell me about your birth country? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: From Burma. I was born in Burma. MG: How long did you live there? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [3:44] AWI: About fifteen years. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 4 MG: K. And why did you leave? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: When or why? MG: Why? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [4:19] AWI: Well, uh when I was little you know um, I just kinda follow my parents I guess. And there were Burmese military everywhere you know. They come to our village they were attacking us and me I just follow my parents. We had to sleep in a forest for three or five days. And then when we come back I’m just going back with them so that’s why I think I…that’s why I left Burma. MG: Okay. And after the forest where did you go? AWI: Going back home. MG: Back home to? AWI: To village. Okay. MG: To village. [4:55] AWI: So the…the Burmese military come attack everybody in the village so to escape that we went to the forest. We slept there for a few days then when…you know things quiet down we come back to our village again. MG: Okay. And what was your experience like in a refugee camp? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 5 [5:49] AWI: [clears throat] Well, my experience in refugees, um. Well, my experience in refugee camp I got married and um...I had one children in refugee camp and back then I wanted to go back home to visit Burma. But I was so scared that I’d…I’d never get a chance to go back. [laughing] MG: Okay. Can you tell me about the food and medical care you received in the camp? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [7:03] AWI: Um. Well, yes we…we do receive food and medical care in the refugee camp, but for a pregnant women when I was pregnant back then. Um, we had like people what organization who are called AMI, IRC, they like come every week and give us…give the pregnant woman um…some like five eggs um…one bottle of oil and then one bag of beans. So, you know just to keep the pregnant ladies healthy. So, yeah if you…you were about to give birth and they’d take you to like…they’d keep you at a hospital so like…they’d admit you to the hospital so that you can stay and give birth. So, yeah. [camera clicking] MG: Did you work or go to school in the camp at all? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [8:17] AWI: Yeah, well when I was small I did go to school uh…I went to school for four days and that’s it. And after I got married I just never got a chance to go to school again because I had to take care of my kids you know. And I ran eh uh…a little shop in a refugee camp and I kinda sell stuff. Groceries. MG: K. What were the day to day living conditions like in the camp like? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 6 AWI: Well, um…for…for guys, you know [clear throat] uh…for day to day they’d go outside of camp and go and uh…plant corn, pick chilies, but for a woman they’d…they’d stay home and take care of kids. And if they’d have more time they’d also go outside of the camp and do the same thing as the guys. MG: Okay. And did you celebrate any holy days, holidays in the camp? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes. Like Karen New Year we have Karen New Year and Christmas day and those kinds of holidays. [10:09] MG: Okay. Did you use any special like decorations or were you able to get any kind of presents for the holidays? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes, for Christmas we…we do. I did receive gifts like from a friend and then I kinda have to give it back. Like you know from friend to friend thing. So, yes. MG: K. What was the political climate like in the camp? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [laughing] AWI: Um I…I don’t know. [laughing] MG: K. Did you feel safe in the camp? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yeah, um I mean I do like living in a refugee camp, but it just uh…sometimes like we you know just kinda have to live with fears I guess. Cuz you had to be afraid of the Burmese soldiers. You know they’ll kind of…will come your burn…will Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 7 come and burn the…the refugee camp cuz they do that all the time. Or sometimes we had be afraid of Burmese military and the Karen military they were fighting each other and we were…I was afraid I might get hit. So yeah. [camera clicking] MG: How did you learn about the U.S refugee program? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [13:26] AWI: Okay, well so. Well, so…so you know I didn’t learn huh…well I so…the thing is so…when I was let’s say teenagers age. Around teenagers age um…um…the Burmese military were coming and forcing people to you know forcing people to become a potter. And they were looking for especially like…like…eighteen to seventeen years old man or woman. Both man and woman. So, you know I…me and my friend we were just really scared. We were like uh…it’s not safe to live in here anymore. Let’s just go to Thailand. Let’s just cross the border. So, yeah we decided…we went to Thailand and we stay in a city. In the city uh…it’s more like a town. It’s called The-wa-fa. We stay in that city. We stay there for a few months picking corn, chilies. [translator interrupts] AWI: You guys want to write that [laughing]? T. h.e…the wa dablu o wa. How do you spell? Wa. [laughing] Thaw. AWI continued: Yeah, we stay there for a…just a few months doing daily things. Picking chilies, planting corn. And it was nice. But then after…after um…I can’t remember the date, but the Burmese military and the Karen military were in they were in conflict…conflicts. And they were fighting each other and then that…that war went straight for three days and three nights. So, me and my friend were really scared you know because of what was going on around us. So…and a lot of people died that…in those three days and so...and everybody was running you know just running for their lives. So…so…what can I do I just kind of follow everybody where they’re going and…and me I ended up in a refugee camp and so…I guess that’s how I learned about refugee camp. MG: Okay. And how did you apply and who helped you get to the U.S? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 8 MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [cut in audio] [16:55] AWI: Well, yeah there isn’t anybody to help, but it’s not hard. It’s not a difficult process to…to come to the United States. You know, you just have to fill out an application and they’ll call your names you know. Hey, so you’re um…set to go to United States. That’s what they’ll tell you, but the thing is um…I…I did not know that you know I have to pay rent, utility bills, insurance bills. Everything you know. But in…in compared to refugees’ camp or Burma you don’t pay anything. You have a house you stay, you do what you want. Nothing is…you don’t have to pay anything basically, but here its different you know. In order you know in order to let you…you had to pay rent and things and stuff. So, yeah. MG: K. Tell me about coming to the United States? When did you first arrive here? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Um… I…I got here on June 9, 2008. MG: And where did you first come…come to? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AW: Salt Lake City AWI: In Salt Lake. MG: Okay. What were the first months like? [18:24] AWI: Well, we didn’t like it you know. We don’t speak the language. We don’t know what to do or where to go. Or we don’t like…like clueless. So, no we didn’t like the first month. MG: Okay. Did you receive any help from the U.S. or religious organizations when you got here? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 9 MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [19:18] AWI: Yes. Um…so when I first arrive in the United States I…I did went…went to…to the church for a few months I guess. And like during Christmas they will come buy my child like a shoes, like boots and stuff. So yes we…I did received help from the religious church. [19:34] MG: Okay. Did you get help from any other organizations? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes. There is another organization called IRC and that’s where we came like, we had to go through their office…not office, but we had to go through like, applications and stuff. And they were the ones that bring us here you know. And they had to take care of us for three months. There yeah, there was like their promise or something. So we receive plates and blankets, and kind of a lot of stuff from them. Yeah. MG: Okay. [clear throat] How long have you lived in Cache Valley? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: About six and a half years. MG: K. And what do you do here? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [20:54] AWI: Um…[clear throat] Well, before um…I used to work at elementary school. I kinda, but I already quit that job, but now because I have a little child to take care of. I can just stay home. Yeah. MG: Okay. What’s it like for you and your family here? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 10 MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: I guess we um…Well, we are surviving here day to day and that is good. We get pay you know my dad. My husband. [laughing] He works at JBS and um…then we get pay every two weeks. We use those money to pay rent to pay utility bills. It’s all gone. We get it again. It just kinda go in circles. Yeah. [22:02] MG: Okay. Do you feel included in the Logan community? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [22:22] AWI: Um…not really. Because you know I don’t speak English. So, yeah. [laughing] MG: Alright. What would make you feel more included in the community? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: [laughing] Uh, I don’t know. [22:51] MG: Okay. Tell me about your home her. How’s it different from your home in your birth country? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [23:32] AWI: Um, so it’s really different. Um, here um…I mean back in Burma you know where my birth country is. You kinda live. The only thing you…you have to fear is that the Burmese military. Other than that you don’t actually have any worries. You don’t have to worry about rent, bills, or food. You can kinda go out work. You get pay. You can either by like I know small stuff…just kinda go day to day without a lot of worries. But here you kinda have to kinda think of everything. Think of: Oh, I need to have this much to pay for my rent. So…here you just kind Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 11 of think…think of financial situation here you know. You can’t you…just have to keep in mind that it’s different from your home here. So, I guess that’s the difference. [24:40] MG: Okay. Can you tell me your experiences with your landlord? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [25:06] AWI: Well, this well…the current manager well…call him manager because she’s the manager of the land. She’s really nice you know. Let’s say something wrong with our house we…I can…I can go there and be like: Hey something is wrong. But although I don’t speak English she will come and look at it herself and that’s really nice, but the previous manager kinda not that nice. So good experience. MG: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, your family, or your ethnic group: MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: [laughing] I don’t know. [laughing] MG: Mmm…let’s see. Would you like to go back to your country? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes, um… my dad is…my dad is still in Burma. And I want to go back. I just don’t have the money to go back yet. So, yeah. One day. MG: Would you ever go back to live? [26:52] MGI: [repeating question in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 12 AWI: Well, it’s something that I have thought of…going back and staying there permanently. But I’m not sure yet because my children are still going to school and you know I still have to be here and support them. So, but yeah. Not sure. MG: What are you most proud of? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [27:57] AWI: Well, uh my children they have a...you know better life here than I did back then. So, I’m really happy for that and now Chit Moe, that’s me [laughing], uh…going to college is really good thing I guess you know. I’m happy to see my child get to go to college and that’s just had never happened in my family. MG: Nice. What are your dreams for the future? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [28:57] AWI: For my future dream I would say for every for my four childrens I really want them to have education. I really want them to have knowledge you know. Even if me and my husband die I’m sure they would still be able to live and support themselves with what they learned you know. So, yeah. [laughing] MG: Okay. Would you ever like to go to school again? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes. I am planning on taking English classes at ELC soon because I failed citizen test two times already. So, I feel the need of taking it…taking the English class again. MG: Okay. AWI: Okay. [29:54] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 13 MG: Do you have any favorite activities to do here in Logan? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [30:44] AWI: I’m not sure. [laughing] I don’t know. I guess, I mean there are a lot of things to do in Logan, but...Yeah, so. MG: Okay. Well, is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you’d like to tell us? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Well, no. Not really, but I’m just thankful for you guys being here and doing interview. So. [laughing] MG: That’s all of my questions. Do you mind if my colleagues…if they have any questions they can ask you? MGI: [repeating question in Karen] [signaled in the positive] BH: Um…I have some questions. So, I was wondering about these um…the lights up here. Are they just decoration…you just like having them up? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yeah, just for decorations and we keep that for Christmas. [laughing] BH: I bet they look nice. Um… AWI: No go ahead. BH: That actually reminds me of a question I had. So you…you mentioned that you’re Buddhist and in the camps though, you celebrate Christmas. Is that a holiday that um…Buddhist’s normally celebrate? I just wonder. BHI: [repeating question in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 14 [32:54] AWI: Yes, uh…like I say I was a Buddhist back in refugee camp, but I have friends who are not Buddhist you know. They celebrate Christmas and I don’t want to be stranger or anything. So, just kind of you know were friends. So, yeah Christmas. So, that’s how that happened. BH: Okay. And you still celebrate Christmas? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes, and it’s still for the same reasons. Have friends heres and sometimes they come and celebrate. Um… likes with Karen um…I don’t know. Well, she hasn’t talked this, but it’s from my…no…never mind…no. [signaled to go ahead] Um…so Karen I think every Christmas like, especially with their Christianity they…they will go house to house and play music with their guitar. Like a group of Karen…like big group and they will come to your door and sing. So, it’s just kind of…does…did you guys do that? Or? [MG, BH, and WV answer at once] MG: Caroling. MG, BH, and WV: Yeah. BH: Christmas caroling. WV: Caroling. AWI: Oh really, okay. So that’s not strange yeah. BH: Mmm…hmm. Usually, just without a guitar. AWI: But it’s with a guitar. Yeah. BHI: It’s with a guitar. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 15 AWI: Yeah. BH: So, why a guitar? AWI: Well, so you can sing better. You can follow the tone or something. [laughing] I don’t know. I’ve just never been to one. Um, like back…back in refugee camp you know we had uh…we had people like Christianity there they come to our house they and help us. So, it’s only polite for me to you know help them back. So, yup. MG: K. BH: Um…sorry I’m just really curious about this guitar. Um… do people have guitars in the refugee camps? AWI: I can answer that. Yes. BH: Was there a lot of music there? AWI: Yes. BH: Like what kinds of music? Was it like um…popular songs? I don’t know like maybe American songs? Or was it like its traditional? AWI: It’s mostly either Burmese songs or Karen songs. Like the...you know, like the top ten songs. [conversation in Karen] I’m doing it. Well, yeah they…we have lot of songs and going back to the Christmas thing you like know, like in a refugee camp when there’s like people going to house to house to sings there’s just gonna be lots of people kinda follow up. You know kinda join the group to do the same thing. So. [laughing] BH: It sounds like a good time. AWI: Right. [36:10] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 16 WV: Um…I’m just kind of curious who is the man in that photo up on the wall in that chair? AWI: On the left? WV: Uh…uh, the bigger one. The guy in the…what looks like brown robes. WVI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Its what his name is Thaminya. He is a…a… a highly…everybody knows person in Buddhist religions. WV: Okay. AWI: And he’s… he’s the monk in Burma and he’s rally um…you know. But there’s just I guess, so many things that happen to him that are miracle or something. Like, I don’t know if this trues…truth or not it maybe a myth, but like when he die. Well, he’s dead already and, but his…his fingernails are still growing. So, it’s just weird. I guess you know he just kind of have supernatural power or something and may people Buddhist…. Yeah. And it is true right. This particular person you know he…he’s still in Burma although he died many, many years ago. His corpse is still there and it’s not being… how do I say it? BH: It’s not decomposed? AWI: It’s not decomposing. Yeah. It’s not. WV: Did they preserve it? Like, did they do anything to…? AWI: Like they probably. Nobody knows whether they preserve it or not. It’s under military control and nobody knows. Like government control. I think they probably did. Come on. [laughing] K. Yeah. [38:04] BH: I have one more question. This is something I’ve been curious about cuz it sounds like in the refugee camps um…you can meet with a lot of people. There are a lot of people around. So, um…did you have a lot of friends in the refugee camp? People that you would meet with a lot? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win Page 17 BHI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes. I had lots of friends in refugee camp. Yeah. BH: Are there any that came here to the United States as well? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes, but they’re not in Utah. They’re in different states within the Unites States. So. BH: Are you able to keep in contact with any of them? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes, um…we kinda...we kinda call each other you know. Friends to friends just like everybody would do. But, mostly what we all concern about: How…how is life doing over there? But, everybody wants to go back home. So, basically. BH: Back home to Burma? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] AWI: Yes, to Burma. But, in Karen State particularly. To that state, yeah. BH: Cool. Thank you. AWI: Good? MG: Thank you. AW: Thank you. [End recording-39:52]
Aye Win
Van de Water, Wes; 1988
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 59
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67609
transcripts;
application/pdf
146517 Bytes
Text;
Karen, Burma, Thailand
oral histories (document genre);
audio/mp3
38288284 Bytes
Sound;
Interview with Eh Htoo on May 16, 2015 in Hyrum, Utah.
Karen; Refugees; Karen Refugees; Thailand; Refugee Camps; Burma; Burmese Military; Porter; United States Immigration
Interview with Eh Htoo about his life as a refugee in Thailand, serving as a porter in the Burmese military, leaving home, and immigrating to the United States.
Eh Htoo; 1983
Eh Htoo
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 60
Gross, Susan
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67610
58004379 Bytes
ENG, KAR
Karen; Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City
Interview transcript with Eh Htoo on May 16, 2015 in Hyrum, Utah.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Eh Htoo Present: Wes Van de Water, Eh Htoo, Chit Moe, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill Place of Interview: Date of Interview: May 16, 2015 Language(s): Karen Translation: Interviewer: Wes Van de Water Interpreter: Chit Moe Recordist: Meagan Gill Photographer: Bethany Hanks Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 19, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water, May 23, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Eh Htoo talks about his life being born into war in the Karen state in Burma. He describes his life as a teenager: his father dying, and then being recruited as a porter for the Burmese military, and his subsequent escape into a refugee camp (Mae La) in Thailand. He talks about his life in Mae La camp: going to school and working to collect bamboo, before moving to the United States (first Salt Lake City, Utah, then Cache Valley, Utah). Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator EH = Eh Htoo EHI = Eh Htoo’s words interpreted by translator BH = Bethany Hanks BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator CM= Chit Moe Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 2 TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us – oh, sorry; first off it is May 16th, 2015 (I almost said 2005) [Laughter] WV: It is six o’clock; we are here meeting with Eh Htoo. My name is Wes Van de Water, I’ll be doing the interview. Meagan Gill is recording, and Bethany Hanks is our photographer. And our translator for this interview is Chit Moe. Okay, so Eh Htoo, if you wouldn’t mind, could you tell us your full name and the year that you were born? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: My name is Eh Htoo, and I was born in 1983. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And he is not sure what date (or days) he was born, but he only know – WV: Knows the year? EHI: Yeah. WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us a bit about your family, where you’re from. EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: I came from Karen state (which is in Burma), but my family, my relatives – they are all in Burma right now, in Karen state. WV: So your family is still in Burma then? EH: Not Burma, Karen state. EHI: It’s in Karen state, but it’s in Burma country. WV: Oh, okay; got you – sorry, so your family is still over in Karen? So if your family is still in Karen, how did you wind up here in the United States? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 3 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So I became a refugee twice, based on my experience: once when I was born, and the other one was – which he hasn’t talked about it yet. Okay. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: [Responding in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Oh, okay. So ever since he was born – no, I was born in 1983; ever since I was born, there was a war between Burmese military and the Karen military. I automatically became a refugee and went to a refugee camp ever since I was born. And in 1985, I came back to my Karen state – EH: Ninety-five. EHI: Oh, in 1985? EH: Ninety-five. EHI: 1995, I’m sorry. In 1995, I came back to my country because I heard there was peace, and it’s better to live in there. So I love my country, that’s why I want to go back. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So after I went back to my country (which is in Karen state), it wasn’t what I was expecting: there wasn’t any peace, and there was still war going on. And when I was 13 years old I became a soldier. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Okay, so not a soldier, but I was – [speaking in Karen] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Actually not a soldier, but I was forced to become a porter. And that happened – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And that happened during the war, you know, so I had to carry bombs and stuff. Basically I was a porter – so they force you to become that – [speaking in Karen] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 4 EHI: So that happened once in 1995, and the other time was in 1998. [04:59] WV: So did you get out of the military then, and you became a refugee when you got out? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So the point is – okay, in 1998 I was 16 years old, okay? At that time I was still a porter, you know, I had to do stuff during the war. So there was one thought that came to me: “If I die during the war,” – before that, I have a mom and an older sister. Because they’re female, the military won’t take them as a porter; and I was only 16 years old, and I was the only boy in the family so I was forced to become a porter. And then I started thinking, “What if I die during the war? There is no point – I can’t repay my family, nor can I help them in any way.” So I started thinking, “It’s better for me to go to refugee camp, maybe study there; and that could be a possibility to help my family, or in any other ways.” Instead of, “What if I die in the war? That is bad.” And my thought is going to refugee camp is better for me. That’s why I went to the refugee camp. WV: So you left your family there in the hopes that you might be able to help them, rather than staying in the military? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yes, that was his dream; his goal. WV: So how long have you been here in the States then? When did you get here? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: In July it will be seven years in Utah. WV: So have you been here, in Utah, the entire time? So when you first – or where was the camp that you were at when you first went to the refugee camp – where was that? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 5 EHI: It’s called Mae La camp – M-A L-A-E – WV: M-A? EHI: M-A L-A-E camp. EH: M-A-E L-A EHI: Oh, M-A-E L-A – EH: M-A-E L-A: Mae La. M-A-E L-A – WV: L-A? EH: Yeah. Mae La. EHI: And I believe this is the largest camp in Thailand. EH: Yeah, largest camp. WV: In Thailand? EH: Yeah. EHI: Um-hmm. [08:03] WV: So how long were in – is it Mae La? Is that how you say it? EH: [Responding in Karen.] WV: How long were you there? EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Almost nine years. WV: And then how did you get out of the camp? How did you wind up coming over to the U.S.? EHI: So from the camp to the United States? WV: Yeah, from the camp. WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 6 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well the thing is, people from the United States, from other countries – they were, you know, coming to the refugee camp and wanted to take refugees to their country. And then I heard about it, so I applied for it; and then I applied for it on 2007, and I departed my camp in 2008. WV: And did they relocate you straight here, to Cache Valley, or did you go somewhere else first? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: It was in Salt Lake. WV: So that was first? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: He lived in Salt Lake for four months, and he moved to Logan after that. WV: Okay. So what was your experience like in the camp? What was it like living there? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So my experience in the refugee camp was just like most people, you know: people were going to school – I wanted to go to school. But in my situation I didn’t get to know my dad – my dad died. Yeah, my dad died and my family couldn’t support me, you know; they couldn’t send me to school because I was only person living in the refugee camp. And like most students, they have free time after school you know, to go hang out; me, I didn’t have those time. WV: So did you just work then, while you were in the camp? Is that all you had time to do was work, and not go to school? EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 7 EH: [Responding in Karen.] CM: Can we pause this really quick? How do we do that? [Recording pauses as Eh Htoo tells the children to leave the room] WV: We good? Okay. EHI: Well, I was a worker, and at the same time I was a student. I go to school for five days in the week days, and the weekend I work. You know, I need to work because I need to buy clothes, I need to buy candle, I need to buy books, I need to buy stuff, you know, to take care of myself: toothpaste, toothbrush; I mean, there is a whole list (I can’t name them all) – WV: Right. EHI: Those are the stuff I need, so I need to work on the weekend. [12:23] WV: So were food and clothes and those things not provided at this camp then? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yes, they did provide (for example) rice, salt, oil – stuff like that, you know, just for daily basics; but clothes and stuff, nobody is going to give us clothes or toothpaste, or any other things so I need to make money to buy those. WV: So now that you’re here, in Utah, are you going to school, or are you working? Or both? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Like I said earlier, I was in Salt Lake for four months – WV: Um-hmm. EHI: And then after I move from Salt Lake to Logan, I started working here at JBS. WV: So are you hoping to bring your family here, or do you want to go back to Burma, to your family? (Or Karen, excuse me.) Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 8 WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well I do want my family to come here, you know, I do – but it’s not possible because my family, they grew up in the village and I don’t think they would like this place here, you know, Utah (not Utah, but in the United States). Although we have better education, better food, it’s not something they would like. And another thing is of course I want to go back home: all my family is back there, I want to go back home; but before I can go back I need to make sure that, you know, Karen state is safe and has protection. Right now that is not the case, so what I’m doing is I’m working – if I have a lot of money then I will send some to my family each month (or whenever I have extra money). WV: So are you able to still keep in contact? Like do you either call or do you write your family back home? WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well yes – I call my mom like every two months (or something like that), you know, I ask her how she’s doing and how is the situation in Karen state? Is it getting better? You know, just the surrounding situation in Karen state. So yeah, I do keep in contact with my family. [15:58] WV: So what is the situation like back in Karen? Is it, you know, is there still a lot of fighting there, or is it just still too unstable to go home? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So in Karen state, you know, I can’t say there is war right now, and I can’t say that there isn’t a war right now, or that war is going to occur in the future; I can’t say anything. It can’t be predicted. EH: Yeah. [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So like I was saying, you know, I cannot tell whether there is a war or not because if there is people who have more power than me, then they will always suppress us; if there isn’t people like that, then it will be safer. WV: So when do you hope to be able to go back home? I mean, do you think the situation will ever calm down enough that you can? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 9 WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well so I do hope to go back there, but even if I were to go back, I would only stay there for one or two years – it won’t be permanent. If I were to go back there, you know, I want to help my family and the people that are in the village. You know, I want to teach them what’s the best way to live, how to survive – and only that will make me feel better (then I would come back here). Even if I were to stay, and even if there are lots of place to work at, but there isn’t any protection so I – yeah. WV: So even if you go back to your family, you would still eventually come back to the States? I know you said that, “Because I grew up in a village, it might be hard for them to adjust here.” But do you think it might be better if they came back with you? WVI: Say it again? WV: Sorry, that was kind of a long question. WVI: Yeah. WV: Do you think even though they might prefer to stay in Burma, do you think you would try to bring them back with you when you came back to the states? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So yes, I tell my mom, you know, I want her to come here: it’s better for us, and our lives are guaranteed here, you know; but no, she just doesn’t want to live here. Well and the thing is that even though it’s not protected, you know, even though the state is in a war situation, my mom still wants to live there (even though she has to hide each day, it doesn’t matter; she believe that she can go through each day). [20:27] WV: So then what – I guess what do you plan on doing? I mean, do you plan on just going back periodically to visit, to help? Or what are your, I guess your plans after you’ve gone home? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 10 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well, yes. Let’s say as I go back to Burma, each time of course I will look at my surroundings (the situation). If it gets better – like if the Burmese military were, you know, not fighting other ethnic groups, not just Karen (and there are many, many ethnic groups in Burma) – so if the situation is better, and if they accept U.S. citizens, you know, to go and visit Burma (to get permission to live there for many years), then I would stay there like five or six years. WV: So have you gotten your citizenship here, in the United States then? WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. WV: How long did that take? Or what was that process like? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: It took about four months to become a citizen. WV: Wow, that’s fast. WVI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So it took three months to apply for it, and then after that they will call me to go and scan my finger. And after that I took a test, and I passed. So, really quick. WV: So did you learn English when you were – it was Thailand, right? Where the camp was? WVI: Yeah. WV: So did you learn English while you were there, or did you just pick it up when you got here, to the U.S.? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 11 EHI: So yes, I did go to school back in the refugee camp, so I did know basic English; but of course my accent was different from other people, and my English teacher wasn’t an English person. And when I got here I had to make an adjustment, you know, I had to learn the accent and try to relearn it all over again. WV: So overall, did you have an easier time adjusting here? I mean, do you prefer living here – or was life, you know, okay in the camp? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] [24:13] EHI: Well I prefer to live in United States, because living in Thailand – I wasn’t a Thai citizen; they didn’t accept me and it’s not my country. Here, they accept me as a U.S. citizen, so I would prefer to stay here. WV: So you arrived in Salt Lake – did you move here, to Logan, for work? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Correct. WV: I know there is a fairly large community here, how do you like living in Logan? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well it’s not the place that I like, you know, I think it depends on someone’s heart (I guess). You know if my heart is like living here, then yeah. So it depends on my – [speaks Karen] it depends on my heart I guess. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Some people doesn’t like to live here, but – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So as long as there isn’t any war – as long as there isn’t any fighting then yeah, I don’t mind living in Logan. WV: So you like it here because it’s peaceful? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 12 WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And another thing is everybody follow the rules here – they respect the rules. So, yeah. WV: Were you raised with any particular religion? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Oh, okay. Well yes, I mean everybody grew up – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Everybody grew up with a different religion, but for me it was different, you know: I grew up believing in nature, I would say. You know, like a mountain – they might have a mountain spirit; for water they might have a water spirit. So that’s what I believe in. WV: So was that a more traditional belief in Karen? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So I think it’s not just for Karen people, you know, the religious tradition; it might also be for other people as well. [27:08] WV: Let me rephrase: so was that, I guess, a common belief there? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 13 EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well yeah, that back then a lot of people in my village – they had the same belief as me, you know: they believe in nature in my village. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: But right now I think there aren’t many who still believe in nature because everywhere, you know, there are Christian, Buddhists, and it’s just surrounded by that particular religion (my religion); so there isn’t a lot of people who still believe in nature. WV: It’s not as common these days? EHI: No; yes. WV: So I guess one thing that I’m curious about is if there is one thing that, you know, you could tell people (either, you know, in the area, or the U.S.) – like if there is one message that you would want for people to hear, what would it be? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So I think he is asking – there are many messages, but for what purpose? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] WV: Okay, so from your experience, you know, what you’ve seen and what you’ve been through, if there is something that, you know, you want people to know (either about you or where you come from)? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] [30:17] EHI: So basically, when I was 15 years old my dad died, and then after that (like I said) I was forced to become a porter. Because my mom and my sister was female, there was no way they could do that. [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 14 EHI: So he is saying that he doesn’t feel very comfortable like saying – it’s not he is not comfortable – he has to stop at a certain point for me to translate that, it’s just not coming out. [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well of course I had many bad experience, but I’d like to share two, particularly. One is that when I was 18 years old (it was in 1998) – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: I mean 16 years old. Like I said, people were coming, taking us as porters. And because my mom and my sister was female, they couldn’t do it. And the thing is like each house has to go five weekdays to do a porter, and if we don’t go then they will charge us $100 each day if we don’t go. We didn’t have any money; we were so poor, so I had to go do it. Everybody was so big and old; I was the smallest to become a porter. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So you know, as I was doing porter – at the beginning I was told, “It’s only going to take ten days, and because you’re only like 16 years old we won’t put you in the front,” you know, “where there are higher chances of getting hit by the bullet.” That is what I was told, but that wasn’t the case, you know; it doesn’t matter you were young or old, I was put at the front. It doesn’t matter I was young or old, they gave me big bags, you know, (just like everybody) that I had to carry – they are all the same weight. And then what happened later was, because there was war going on, they told me at first that they were going to protect me and put me in the back, but that wasn’t the case. And after ten days – it’s because there was a war going on, they just couldn’t get any help and they didn’t protect me, or they can’t ask other people to come or take my place because I’m already, you know, at the front and it’s really dangerous to replace people. So, yeah. [34:32] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So like I said, after ten days you know, I was hoping that people would replace me with the other bigger and stronger person, but they didn’t. And because I was so small, you know, the military didn’t think I would come up with a strategy or a way to escape the situation, but I did. I thought of it, I didn’t want to stay here, you know; it’s dangerous. So as war going on, because I was only 16 years old and the military didn’t think of me as anything – and that is also when I escaped from that place. [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 15 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Oh, and as I was escaping I didn’t go straight to the refugee camp, I went back to my home: to the Karen state. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So as I was escaping that place, you know, I also helped two old men. They were telling me that, “It’s dangerous, don’t escape this place,” you know, “there are bombs everywhere and you might get hit, so just don’t do it.” And then I said, “No, believe me; I’m going to walk at the front, so if there was a bomb then I would get hit first. Because I was so small, even if I get hit you guys can carry me with you. But if you guys get hit by the bomb, I can’t help with it.” EH: [Speaking in Karen.] [37:39] EHI: So you know, that day it was a run and there was when everything was quiet down, you know, the war is like kind of – everybody was resting. And at the same time we had a duty where we had to go and fill up water and bring it back to that place. And I told those two old men, “Don’t bring anything with you; just bring your clothes and a container to pretend like we’re going to swim to get water.” And that’s when I escaped from that place. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: As I was doing porter with the Burmese military and they were speaking Burmese and I was speaking Karen, and there was also some challenges between me and the Burmese military (because of language barrier). EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: In the process of escaping, you know, those two old men – they know the place and they know the roads; but at the same time they know there are bombs, but they don’t know where it is. So as we were escaping, they showed me where to go, you know, they showed me this is the way back home. So I thought that, “Let’s say if this is the road, of course there are going to be bombs.” So what I did was I kind of walked in a place where people won’t usually going to walk on it. So that’s how I escaped through those bombs. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Let’s say from the place where there is war going on, and the place to my house it would take about a day to walk; but because I had to try to avoid those bombs, it took about one and a half or two days. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 16 EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: The distance is about from here to Bear Lake. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] [40:38] EHI: So as soon as I get to my village, you know, I went to ask those people who told me that it’s going to take ten days and I won’t be put at the front, and then I went straight to them (it was in the evening-ish), I went to see them and was going to ask them those questions, you know. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: You know, the person that told me it’s going to take ten days, and I won’t be put at the front was like a leader in the village, you know; he is like – he is really old and he is really nice. I went to him and ask him, “Why was I put at the front, and why does it take longer than ten days? And why didn’t you replace me with other people?” So that leader, you know, that old man (that leader) – he told me, “I’m really glad that you escaped that place. I didn’t think that anybody would come up with a strategy to escape that place, because we don’t have anybody back here to replace any of you out there.” So he was glad that I escaped that place. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Starting then, starting from the time I escaped – you know, as I was thinking, “Although I escaped that place, they’re going to come back and force me to become a porter again. And if they do that each time, of course I am going to get older and older. And as I get older they’re going to, you know, force me to do much, much heavy work and much, much harder things.” So I decided, “It’s no use living here,” you know, “If I die out there, it won’t benefit me or my family or my people.” EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: As I was coming up with those thoughts, I ended up in a refugee camp. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Like what I said earlier, I asked my mom, saying that I’m going to go to a refugee camp to live, and she’s like, “Okay, you can go then.” [43:40] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 17 EHI: So before I left my village, you know, I asked my mom for permission. She said, “Okay, you can go.” But before my left, my mom told me, “Son,” you know, “you can go there; you can go to the refugee camp, but I cannot support. Of course they’re going to give you pencil, books to go to school, maybe food – but if you want any other particular things, you know, such as good clothes or any other thing, there is no way I can support you. So if you want to go, just think about – just keep that in mind.” EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And like I said earlier, I go to school for five days and I work on the weekend, and that’s how I support myself because I didn’t have any help back then. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Before I got to the refugee camp I already knew someone, and fortunately he went to the – there is like a place you have to put your name to get food – and he went ahead and put my name on the list, you know, saying that I’m going to be coming, I’m going to get some food. And yeah, I liked that idea, but in order for me to get food that person had to lie for me, you know; he said that my parents were dead, and I had to live that way. I didn’t like lying, but I had to lie to get food. I had to say that my parents are gone, and that’s one of the ways to get help, I guess. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Okay well like I said, in that program if you tell that your parents are gone – well in this case my dad was really gone, but my mom isn’t – then they put my name saying that my parents are gone, and in this case they will help me for 20 years (that was the promise). They gave me umbrella, toothpaste, toothbrush – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Soap and shampoo, and a candle to study (so I can see in the dark). EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And they gave us those every year (once a year). EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Okay, actually it’s not like that – for umbrella they give it once a year, but for the other five items, they give it every month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 18 EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And I’m really, really thankful for that, and you know, for helping me and giving me those items (those are really needed). [47:55] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: That’s pretty much the end of my story, I guess. Like I was saying, I go to school five days, I work in the weekends. My work is – I woke up at three in the morning – my work is dependent on the season I guess. If people were selling this particular item this three months, and I will have to do the same thing. So what I have done was at three a.m. I went out in the deep forest and looking for bamboos (like small bamboos), and I have to you know, it could be rainy, it’s dangerous, I have boots and it was kind of dangerous. But yeah, I won’t get home until five p.m. in the evening, so it’s all day work. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So bamboos are really heavy, you know; each day the most I can get is about 60 kilogram – [speaking to Eh Htoo] Kilogram? EH: Um-hmm. EHI: But the way that people are buying it, they buy it one gram is one dollar – not one dollar, but one Bahts in Thai money; so I would get about 60 Bahts a day. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And that takes all day long: from three a.m., to five p.m. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And if we were to compare it with U.S. dollar, it would be two dollars a day. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And that would take around ten hours (I think) – ten hours of work. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well this is pretty much it about my story. Of course there are other things, but they are not really important or significant. WV: Thank you for sharing. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 19 WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.] EH: Thank you. WV: So that’s about all the questions that I have. Meagan or Bethany, do either of you have questions for Eh Htoo? WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] BH: I did think of a couple BHI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yeah, no problem. BH: You mentioned – well you talked a lot about escaping from the military – was that a common thing? Were there many people that escaped? BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well it really depends, you know. For people who sees things different like, “This place isn’t right, we have to escape,” then yeah – it’s possible for them to escape that place; but for people who fear that “There are bombs, there are military, they are going to catch you” – then I don’t think they will ever come up with a thought of escaping that place. BH: What would have happened had they caught you while you were trying to escape? BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well for me (I was only 16 years old), so even if they caught me it won’t be much of a problem; but for those two old man – yeah, it’s a big problem. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] [53:25] EHI: Well yeah, even if – let’s say the people were trying to escape and they got hit by the bomb, it just cause a problem for that leader in the village camp, and it cause a problem for the military as well. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 20 BH: Oh, thank you. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] MG: Good? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: He is saying it doesn’t matter what country it is, but refugee occur mostly just like this, you know, because some country are not stable because there is war going on, there is no protection for people. I guess that’s how most refugee occur. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: He wants to ask you guys a question now. BH: Sure. EHI: So do you guys think that the more refugee we have, is that a better thing or not? Is that a better thing or not? WV: Do we think it’s good that we have more refugees here, in the States? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So he is saying around the world – the whole world. Is it better if there isn’t any refugees? Or is it better if there is some refugees? WV: Well I mean, for me at least, I wish there didn’t have to be. WVI: [Speaking in Karen.] WV: I would much rather have people be in a place where they are safe. WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: As you were saying, you know, you want people to have peace and you know, no refugees; but is there a way for that to happen? WV: I don’t know; hopefully some day. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 21 WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.] [55:58] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Do you know why there are refugees these days? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: The whole world, yeah. Do you know why there are refugees? WV: You mean still? EHI: Yeah, still? Or why did they even happen in the first place? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: [Responding in Karen.] Yeah, like why did it occur? I don’t know. WV: I wish I had an answer; I don’t know. It’s just some people do what they want, regardless of the price to others; there is no real reason for it. WVI: [Repeating the answer in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well I have an answer; I think you know, it’s because of three reasons why there are refugees: one is because of business and economy; secondly it is because of religious; thirdly it is because of politics. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: That’s what I think. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well I think those are the answer, but I don’t know which is the right answer. I don’t know how to solve this problem either. But I just hope that, you know, people who has more power could maybe come up with an idea to get rid of this, I guess. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 22 EHI: Yeah, I’m sure that those are the three reasons why refugees occur. I really hope, you know, people who have more power can help, or maybe other countries can help. WV: Well and I agree that I think those are the causes; but as far as, you know, I don’t think there is a good reason why people do those things (is what I was trying to say). WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well for my conclusion, I guess, of course I have many other things I want to share with you guys (but I don’t think there is enough time) – let’s say if I were to graduate from here in the States, you know, and let’s say if I was invited to the White House just to talk about these issues – it would be nice. But currently I am nobody, I don’t have an education; so yeah, I just don’t have the power or hope to even say that, talk about those issues. WV: Well that’s one of the reasons why we’re here, and why we are doing this. You know, we are one school, but our hope is that we can help you get your story out there, so that maybe we can do something. WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. WV: So thank you for giving us the chance, and for talking with us. WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] WV: I think we’re good. [End recording – 60:25]
Eh Htoo; 1984
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 61
Van de Water, Wes; 1989
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67611
397801 Bytes
Pyo Nwe interview transcript, May 18, 2015
Pyo Nwe explained what her life was like in a Karen refugee camp. She details her experiences living in the camp, which include getting married and having children. She also explains the difficulties that she and her family faced (and still face) after coming to the United States.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Pyo Nwe Present: Pyo Nwe, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan Gill Place of Interview: Pyo Nwe’s home in Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 18, 2015 Language(s): Karen; English Translation: Interviewer: Bethany Hanks Interpreter: Chit Moe Recordist: Wes Van de Water Photographer: Meagan Gill Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG- 18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe Transcribed by: Bethany Hanks, May 24, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 25, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Pyo Nwe describes her life in a Karen refugee camp before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the Karen refugee camp and what it was like living there, getting married there, and having children there. She also describes the changes and difficulties that she and her family faced (and still face) when they left the refugee camp and came to the United States. Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator PN = Pyo Nwe PNI = Pyo Nwe interpreted by translator WV = Wes Van de Water WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 2 NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] BH: Okay, today is May 18, 2015. And this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water on audio and Meagan Gill taking photographs. We’re all students at Utah State University and are working on a project called “Voices: Refugees in Cache Valley.” Right now we’re visiting Pyo Nwe at her home in Logan, Utah. And her little son is with us, who is 8 months old, and Chit Moe is translating. So, first we want to thank you Pyo Nwe for letting us come and speak with you. So first, um, can I have you say your full name and birth year? PN: Pyo Nwe Nwe BH: Pyo Nwe Nwe? PN: January 1st, 1978. BH: Thank you. PNI: Date of birth, January 1st, 1978. BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [laughs] [responding in Karen] PNI: I speak Karen and Burmese. BH: Thank you. Can you tell me a little about your family? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 3 BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: In Utah, or? BH: Um, if you can talk about maybe your family here in Utah and also if you have family over in Karen too? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [2:07] [Baby breathing loudly] PNI: Um, my family, we all lived in refugee camps and then we all moved to Utah, which is, we were in Salt Lake and we came in March 3rd, 2008. [2:25] [Baby makes noises] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: We lived there for one year in Salt Lake City, and we moved here in 2009, and we’ve been here ever since. BH: He likes the microphone, doesn’t he? [laughs] So the refugee camp where you were at – where was that exactly? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: It is called Mela Camp. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 4 BH: Mela Camp? And do you have any idea where the location of that is in Thailand? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: We didn’t know. It is close to the border, and I know that it’s in Thailand, but I don’t know whether it’s the south or which states or province it’s in. We just know that it’s a refugee camp. BH: Okay, and did you say how long you were there for? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: 1997 to 2008. PNI: From 1997 to 2008. BH: Wow, so then did you grow up quite a lot in this refugee camp? BHI: Like, did she grow up in refugee camp? BH: Yeah, like there as a young child and maybe as a teenager. PN: Yeah, teenager. BH: Yeah? PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yes, I was sixteen years old back then. BH: Okay. What was it like for you, being there as a young person in the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 5 PNI: Well, at first I lived in Burma. I was poor – my family was poor, and from what I heard, refugee is a better place than Burma. At refugee camp they have school, and their schooling is free. So I decided to go to refugee camp for education purposes. BH: Okay, so what kinds of education did they offer in the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, the education in the refugee camp was – it’s not so great like in America, but it’s better than Burma though. [5:59] [Baby breathes loudly] BH: Okay, what kinds of things did you learn in the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: I don’t know if I learned much in the refugee camp because at first, coming to a refugee camp was to study— [Baby makes noises] —but then, things changes, you know. Different circumstances occurred, and it just changes. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: And I didn’t get to learn. PN: [responding in Karen] [Baby makes noises] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 6 PNI: However, I did help out the school and the teachers with a few things; just helping out for a few years. BH: Okay. Did you have any brothers or sisters with you, or your parents? PN: Yeah, [responding in Karen] PNI: I have three brothers, I mean – PN: Three sisters. PNI: – three sisters. One is in Thailand and the other is in Burma, in Karen State. BH: Okay, we’ll get him some toys huh; let him play. [laughs] So are your siblings, are they still, you said in Thailand and Burma? Are they still over there? Yeah? So, they weren’t in the refugee camp with you? Or – BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [8:47] PNI: No, they didn’t live with me in the refugee camp, but my older sister (the one that’s in Thailand) she has a daughter who has a disease, and in order to cure the disease, there isn’t a hospital in the refugee camp. There is, but it’s not very big. So, they had to go to Thailand to work over there and to get her daughter the cure. BH: Do you remember much about your life before being in the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, a lot. BH: Yeah? What kinds of things do you remember? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 7 PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, I remember lots of things, but which one are you wanting to know more about? BH: Yeah, let’s see, I guess things about your family – maybe your daily, kind of what life would have been like for you on just a regular day? Or maybe like the sort of the political situation, if it was dangerous at all. BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: [speaking in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [11:53] PNI: Well, I do remember like from 1989 or 1990, well – not before 1990. I think I was about 9 or 10 years old back then. We had, like I said, three sisters, and I lived with my parents. Well, my biggest goal was to go to school you know, to have a better school for me. Back then it was really difficult because the Burmese military were coming and forcing people to become porters, and my dad was one of them. After he has gone to do the porter thing, and then he lost his leg, like during the war, and he couldn’t work any more after that. It was a really challenging for my family. After a few months or a few days (I can’t remember) my older sister, she kind of left us and she went to Thailand. BH: Wow, thank you. So was education, then, I know you said – you mentioned education earlier, and you wanted to get a better education. Were there other reasons for relocating to the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yes, I wanted to go to school like really bad back then. In my village, my family was the poorest out of everybody, and then in order to go to school there we had Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 8 to have like a good umbrella, good shoes, good clothes – and my parents, they couldn’t afford to buy any of that. And I kind of felt embarrassed, I mean, to go to school there, so I though it’d be better to go to school in a refugee camp where everything is free, you know. But then when I got to the refugee camp, I got married – so I didn’t really get to go to school. BH: So you met your husband, then, in the refugee camp? What was that like? Was that a good place, I guess, to meet lots of people? PN: [responding in Karen] [15:33] PNI: I think it’s a good place to meet with lots of people, but back then I was kind of young. I was still young, and I had lots of thoughts: there isn’t anyone to support me; my family isn’t here either. [Baby makes spitting noise] I guess that’s how I though about getting married you know – to find my companion who, we can maybe support each other now. It’s just the thought that came by. BH: Very neat. So, your husband in here with you now? Did you all come over, did you leave the refugee camp together? Yeah? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: Yes. BH: How difficult was it to, I guess, go through the process of coming to another country? Was that difficult or was it fairly easy? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, in Burma, it’s difficult there. [Baby rattles toy and breathes loudly for a few seconds] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 9 In Thailand it’s the same thing. And here it’s still difficult. BH: Yeah? PNI: I don’t think that’s answering your question. Everywhere is difficult. BH: Uh-huh. So, I guess, another way to ask would be is it difficult to gain entry as a refugee into the United States? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] [phone buzzes] PN: [responding in Karen] [Baby coughs] PN: Sorry. BH: Oh, that’s okay. [17:58] [Pyo Nwe moves play set nearby] Children like to be active, I know. I have nieces and nephews, and they’re, yeah. BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: I think it’s a fairly easy process to get to United States, you know, compared to people who came here with visa or other things. Because we were refugees, then it was easier. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: To get here, we received lots of help, you know. People helped us step by step to get here. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 10 BH: Okay, thank you. So in the refugee camps, did they celebrate any holidays or have any special religious days? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, there are. BH: Yeah, like, can you give us an example of one of those special holidays and maybe how it was celebrated? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [19:49] PNI: The biggest thing would be, we have Karen New Year, and we have Burmese New Year. For Karen New Year, in the beginning we had like a – I would say like camp leaders, lots of leaders, you know. They will go up on the stage and just give speeches. BH: Wow. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, Karen has it’s own culture, and Burmese has its own culture. BH: So, what’s the main difference, I guess, between Karen New Year and Burmese New Year? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Because I’m not as – I guess, I don’t have a good experience, like such leaders, but what I can tell is that for Burmese New Year, they celebrate it on April. For Karen, they do it on December. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 11 BH: Okay, so it’s mainly the time then. [Baby coughs] Wow. Thank you. [baby makes noises] So, when you were in the refugee camp, did you get any idea of what the people in Thailand thought of the refugees in the camps? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] [Baby coughs] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, I don’t know about other people, but for me, you know, I was really scared of the Thai military. Thai, yeah. Because back then if we had, say we have a meeting, say don’t go out of the camp today, then I will never go out of the camp because if the Thai military captures you, they will send you somewhere else. Another example is my husband who worked outside the camp – [Baby coughs] He was chased by Thai military lots of times, but fortunately he escaped every single time he was chased. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: What makes me more scared is that when I went back to Thailand one day, I saw the Burmese military. They were taking people, you know. They were taking people to – I don’t know where they were taking them, but they were capturing people, so it makes me more scared. BH: Wow. PN: [responding in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 12 PNI: Yeah, for me, it was really scary, but I don’t know about other people. BH: So, is that something that happens a lot – that maybe refugees leave the camp, they sneak out or something, and then they’re captured by Thai military and taken somewhere else? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [24:44] PNI: Yeah, I think it – [Baby bonks head] Ooh. BH: Oh no, is he okay? [Baby cries] PN: Oh. BH: Is he okay? [Baby cries] Head bonk. [baby cries] PN: Sorry. BH: Oh, that’s okay. PNI: He wants to sleep now. He’s feeling sleepy. Well, I don’t know about now, but back fourteen years ago, I would say it happened a lot because I have seen it myself. I lived close to the Thai military gate, I guess, their area, I kind of lived close to where they lived, and what I saw was there was this – Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 13 [phone makes noise] – there was this woman, I would say [phone makes noise] PN: [laughs] PNI: Sorry. BH: That’s okay PNI: Okay, what happened was this Thai military guy – he went out, he found a woman, he took her to the camp, not to the camp but to their place, and I lived really close to it. And they were doing some horrible things to her, I think. I heard the noise and everything, but I couldn’t help. I was so scared. So, I think it happened a lot. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, at the same time, not all the Thai military are bad. Some are really good people as well. I remember when I was pregnant, I saw Thai military who was actually helping me with stuff, you know. He bought me food, so that was really nice. BH: Did you had some children while you were in the refugee camp. PN: Four. [laughs] BH: Four? PNI: She has four. BH: So, four. So, this one with you, he is number four? PN: Five. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 14 BH: Number five, okay. Was that difficult? Either medically—I mean, did they have, um, places where you know, there was a doctor around to help you give birth? And then you know, raising the children in the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, there were hospitals in the refugee camps. If I were pregnant – if I were close to giving birth, I could go to hospital and give birth there. But what’s sad is that, like, my sister or people who lived in Burma, they, there was no way they could afford to go to the hospital in Burma, so it was kind of sad. BH: Yeah. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: I think, personally for me, I had a better life than my sisters had. [28:30] BH: How different is it now, raising a child here in America compared with in the refugee camp? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, before – [Baby touches microphone] – in the refugee camp, yeah, it was different raising a child compared to here and in the refugee camp. Back there, I had four kids, my husband would go out and work, and if he finds a job then he will bring us some money so we can buy good food, good meal. But here, it’s like, he has a job, and it’s better than the refugee camp, but here we have a different situation I guess. I’ve been here for seven years, and I wanted to go to school, but because of a bad situation I just can’t go to school here. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 15 BH: Is there anything that would help you be able to go to school here in the United States? PN: [responding in Karen] [baby cries] PNI: [speaking in Karen] PN: [responds in Karen] PNI: Well, before I was pregnant here in United States, I had a teacher, you know. She would come and visit me and teach me English. So that was really nice, but she moved to Colorado long ago. But now, I don’t expect to go to high school or middle school. It’s not something I can handle; I know that very well. But I would like a teacher who could come and teach me, because now that my children are growing up, I have time to study; learn more English. PN: [speaking in Karen] [laughs] BH: He’s cute. So I wanted to ask, although it sounds like you may have answered my question already, but given the chance to go to school, what would you study? Although it sounds like English is something that you would really like to learn, but is there anything else? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [33:06] PNI: Well no. English is the main thing that I want to learn. However, I do want to learn a lot of English so I can communicate on a daily basis. Let’s say if someone were to ask me a question, so that I know the answer to that question, or I understand that question so I can answer it. BH: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so do you think learning English would make living in America easier for you? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 16 BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, yeah, I think if I could understand a lot, but not a hundred percent, then I guess it would help a lot, you know. Though it’s not a hundred percent, it would help a lot. BH: Yeah. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: And at the same time, my brain is not as good as American people, so it’s not like I can really learn English. It’s not like I can learn English like a hundred percent, does that make sense? [Baby cries] BH: I think if I understand what she’s meaning, you can translate it back and make sure I’ve got this right, but, it’s difficult once you’re an adult and you’ve already learned— PNI: Mmm, yeah. BH: one language— PN: Yeah. BH: it’s harder to learn another. BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah. BH: Because I think the situation would be – if we were to go to Karen, I think we would be in a similar situation. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 17 PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, when I had a teacher, you know the one that moved to Colorado, back then, I think I understood English, a lot, I guess. I understood English more than what I understand now. Right now, I think I forgot lots of it, yeah. PN: [laughs] BH: Yeah. So, your first few months after leaving the refugee camp, you came to America. What was that like for you and your family? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, I think it was kind of a little bit challenging. When me and my family first came to America, there weren’t a lot of Karen people, and we really didn’t know a lot about America I guess. Well, at first, people were giving us those apple juice – we thought it was oil, so we didn’t want to touch it. And then when they gave us lotion, we didn’t know what it is, so we use it for our face because it smells nice, right? If we wanted to say something, there weren’t any interpreters back then. And if we wanted to go buy groceries, we didn’t even know where to go. BH: Wow. So, what did you end up doing when you needed to buy groceries? Did you end up – was there someone around who was also from Karen who helped? PN: [responding in Karen] [37:36] PNI: Yeah, it wasn’t Karen people that helped my family. There weren’t many Karen people like I said. It was people from the church. They pretty much helped us with everything, I guess. Taking us to the hospital, you know, taking us to go shopping, buying us stuff – yeah, from the church. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Oh, yeah, what I remember is that my oldest daughter – she had like a tooth pain back here, the upper one, back here. We went to hospital, you know, and the Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 18 doctor looked at it, but the doctor took one tooth out, but it was the one at the bottom. BH: Oh no. PNI: But that one had cavities so it was okay, but the one that hurts was the one on top. BH: So, it was on the top left? PNI: Yeah, top. BH: And he took out the bottom left. PNI: The bottom left. BH: Okay. PN: [laughs] [speaking in Karen] PNI: I had to take my daughter to the hospital again to take the other one out, the upper left one. BH: How did you communicate that with the dentist, or the man who was working on her mouth? PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: We were just using, I guess, sign language – kind of this, that. But we had people from the church, like one person who took us to the dentist, but back then there was no interpreters, so we can’t tell him what was going on. We just tried to show him this and that. BH: Yeah, with your hands? PNI: Yeah, all without sound. PN: [responding in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 19 PNI: I didn’t know it either, that she had a tooth that was hurt, but my daughter just told me that it hurts. But thought the doctor already took, it was the one on the bottom already, but it still hurts. BH: So, this church that you mention that helped you? Is this the church that you, or the religion that you take part of? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] [40:37] PNI: It’s not my religion, that church, but they have a lot of people, you know. It doesn’t matter whether you’re that – whether you come from that religion or not. And they help a lot of Burmese and Karen refugees. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, everybody who’s a refugee doesn’t know anything. So they help with everybody I guess. [Phone starts ringing] BH: Is that you’re phone—no? PN: [speaking in Karen] PNI: It’s a broken phone. BH: Oh. [laughs] PN: [speaking in Karen] BH: Oh, okay. PNI: It plays it every morning. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 20 BH: Okay. [laughs] BH: So, do you remember what the name of that church was? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: No, but it’s in Salt Lake. It’s the LDS church. BH: Okay. [Baby makes noises] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: It’s around 300 East. BH: Okay, in Salt Lake City? PNI: Yeah, in Salt Lake City. BH: Okay. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: I think until today, they’re still helping people who are other refugees. BH: Okay. Let me see. [baby makes noises] BH: So, you mentioned that here in Logan, your husband has a job? What work does he do? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 21 PNI: He works at JBS. He cuts meat. That’s what he does – JBS, yeah. BH: Okay. And I think—so you mentioned in the refugee camps, your husband would have to leave the camp to work? Was there like a specific job that he had? Or was he leaving the camp to find a job? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, he had to look for work, you know, in the refugee camp – outside of refugee camp, I mean. BH: Wow. PN: [responding in Karen] [Baby shakes toy] [43:38] PNI: Yeah, it just really depends on the day. So, one day you find a job, then you get paid. One day, if you can’t find a job, then you don’t get paid. BH: So what kinds of jobs could be found in that way? What sorts of work could he find? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, if it’s around May, then he would work as a, like in a cornfield, where he has some kind of corn. BH: Kind of seasonal— PN: Yes PNI: Yes, depends on – Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 22 BH: Whatever was available? Those kinds of things. PNI: Yeah. BH: Okay. Let’s see. Is there anything that you wish that the people of Logan knew about you or your family? Or kind of your culture in general? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Well, I guess I don’t know, you know because, my family we’re from refugees, you know, and we didn’t know about America a lot. And today we still don’t know a lot about Americans I guess. We just kind of need help, you know. That’s basically what she just said. BH: Okay, so it’d be good if we could all find a way maybe to learn more about each other, yeah? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, sometimes, I don’t know, if we’re in trouble or something – we just don’t know what to do. We just kind of need a guide, I guess. PN: [responding in Karen] [47:17] PNI: Yeah, we’re just kind of a little scared and don’t understand a lot here, so it would be nice just to get help. BH: Okay, I think I have – I have one more question. Do you think you will ever go back to Burma, to Karen State? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 23 PNI: Yeah, I guess I would want to go back and visit Burma, but I’m not a hundred percent sure if I want to go back and live there permanently, you know. Yeah, I just don’t have any plans yet for that. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: At the same time, I’m not a hundred percent sure if I want to live in the United States forever either. So yeah, I’m just not planning yet. BH: Mm-hmm. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: And the other reason for me to be staying here is for my children. They have a better education here. BH: I guess just one question going off of that – do you think you would ever want your son here, who was born in America, do you think you would want him to see the land where you came from and know that people and that language? BHI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: Yeah, like I said, I grew up as a refugee, and I wanted to go back to school but I couldn’t. But now I’m here in United States. I want to give my children the opportunity to go to school here, graduate, you know – have a better education here. After then, I would like them to go back to Burma and help out other people you know, to tell them what they learned; to give back to the people in Burma. PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: For me, I want to help my people you know, but I can’t. I know I can’t. But for my children, yeah, sure they can one day. BH: Well thank you. I think that’s all of my questions, but I want to see if either Wes or Meagan – if they have any questions they’d like to ask, if that’s okay? PN: Okay, I have a lot of time. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 24 BH: See, your English is good! [51:19] WV: I guess I was kind of curious, if you’re not LDS – and I notice you have a picture of the Logan temple up on the wall – what is your religious background if you’re not LDS? WVI: [repeating question in Karen] PN: [responding in Karen] PNI: [speaking in Karen] PN: [speaking in Karen] PNI: Well, back to the refugee camp, I was Buddhist. My whole family was Buddhist. But here, me, my husband and – [speaks in Karen] – and my oldest daughter, us three – we converted to LDS. WV: Okay BH: Okay PNI: We already have, yeah. PN: [speaking in Karen] PNI: So I guess there are like four more left in my family, still isn’t LDS. PN: [speaks in Karen] PNI: Well, what I want to say is that it all depends on my daughters I guess. It doesn’t matter what religions they choose. It’s all up to them. We don’t have any objection to anything. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Pyo Nwe Page 25 PN: [speaks in Karen] PNI: For me, I chose it myself, to become LDS. It was my decision. BH: Okay, any other questions? No? Well thank you. So I think that’s the end of our interview. It is, it’s 11:58 AM, I don’t know if I mentioned, the starting time was about 11:04 or 11:05. So thank you, Pyo Nwe, and your little son. So, thanks to both of you. PN: [laughs, responds in Karen] [53:28]
Pyo Nwe, 1978
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 65
Hanks, Bethany, 1989
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67615
170153 Bytes
Burma (Karen State); Thailand (Mela Camp); Salt Lake City (Utah); Logan (Utah);
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 64
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67614
51338140 Bytes
Karen; Refugees; Karen Refugees; Religion; Sports; Takraw; Cache Valley; Cache Valley Refugees; College; School; Utah State; Utah State University; Burma; Thailand; Refugee Camps
The interview took place in Snay Tun's family home in Logan. Snay Tun is a young Karen man in his early twenties. The interview occurred on the floor of his living room where we spoke for about an hour regarding his life as a refugee, moving to the US, school, and his passion for the sport Takraw.
Snay Tun 1994
N/A
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 66
Van de Water, Wes 1988
Van de Water, Wesley; 1988
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67616
39427997 Bytes
ENG
Karen; Thailand; Salt Lake City
Interview transcript with Snay Tun on May 19, 2016
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Snay Tun Present: Wes Van de Water, Snay Tun, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill Place of Interview: Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 19, 2015 Language(s): English Interviewer: Wes Van de Water Recordist: Meagan Gill Photographer: Bethany Hanks Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe software Transcribed by: Wes Van de Water May 23, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water May 23, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Snay Tun talks about his youth in the Umphiem Refugee Camp, moving to the United States, his life as a college student, his family, Karen traditions, and about the sport of Takraw. Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water ST= Snay Tun BH = Bethany Hanks MG= Meagan Gill Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 2 Tape Transcription [00:01] WV: Okay, so we are here meeting with Snay Tun, it is 11:22 on May 19th- um, I am Wes Van de Water, I will be doing the interview, Bethany Hanks is doing the photography, and Meagan Gill is recording the interview. Um, so Snay, if you would, could you tell us your full name and birth year? ST: Well, my name is Snay Tun, my birthday is October 13, 1994. WV: Thank you. So, I guess to start off, could you just tell us a little bit about your family, about- are you from Burma or Karen? ST: Uh, I am from Burma, but I our country is inside of Burma. WV: Okay. ST: We are Karen. WV: Oh so you're form Karen state? ST: Yes, Karen state. WV: Ok. So could you just tell us a bit about your family in the Karen state? ST: Well, I don't really know, but because they said there is a war, so we had to move over to another country. So, yeah. WV: Ok. So, did you grow up in a refugee camp then? ST: Yes. I grew up in a refugee camp. WV: Uh, which camp were you from, or did you grow up in? ST: I grew up in Umphiem. WV: Umphiem? ST: U-M-P-H-I-E-M WV: Where was that located, do you know? ST: It's in Thailand. WV: Thailand. ST: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 3 WV: So, how old were you when you first went there? ST: Oh, I was like five years. WV: And how many- or how long did you live in Umphiem? ST: I lived there for nine years. WV: So, what was life in Umphiem like? What was it like living there? ST: Well, if, like, it was just- it was a refugee camp. As you see it's not like, not really free to go outside. We just stayed in the camp. But we do receive food and then medicaid. Yeah, like it's a hospital or children free to get medication for free. WV: So what were the setups of the camps like? Like what kind of, were, they, um, were they sort of like temporary buildings that could be moved, or were they, um, places built like this where they're not really designed to be moved? ST: uh, well, I'm not really sure, because like, you know the home was built with the wood- WV: Mhm ST: So, yeah, if they moved like that, to, like, like... um, broke down everything and moved to another one, because we're not sure like, it's still good to move or not, you know. WV: Um, so where or how did you wind up leaving the camp? And where did you go after you left the refugee camp? ST: After I left the refugee camp, I just moved to here. Moved to USA. WV: Ok. Um, so did you where did you arrive when you first came to the States? ST: Salt Lake City, Utah. WV: So what caused you to move from Salt Lake to Logan? ST: To Logan, at first my father he got a job here, so yeah. He like, told us to come and move with him in here and stay here. So, he could take care of us, like if we lived close to him. WV: Ok. Where does your father work? ST: JBS. WV: So and you said that you- so you moved here to Logan and you started going to school, is that right? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 4 ST: Yes. WV: What are you studying here? ST: Right now? WV: Yes at Utah State ST: I don't have major yet, I am an undeclared student. I just take a major, like general class. WV: Uh, what do you think you want to study? ST: Well, I think I want to study political science. [04:22] WV: Do you have any, what do you plan on doing, or what would you like to do after you finish college? ST: Uh well, after I have finished college, I'm not really sure what to do yet. But I thought if I get my degree, I might, like, plan to go to back to Thailand or something. Yeah. Or Burma. WV: What would you like to do if you moved back there? ST: Moved back there? Um, well, for what I'm thinking maybe, like, join some kind of like, community. Like WV: what exactly do you mean? ST: Like join some of kind community like, Karen community or something. WV: So would you, I guess would you be interested in, trying to you know, trying to help stabilize the situation in Burma, you know, try to maybe work with the government on fixing things? ST: Yeah, I plan to, yeah. If I got my degree. But I'm not really sure will study that. WV: Right, so when did you start school here? ST: I start school here since like 2009. I, like, well, I get in Salt Lake City, I stay there for 10 months, so I study 8th grade, when I move here, I studied 9th, and then, yeah. WV: So you lived in Salt Lake for 10 months? ST: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 5 WV: Ok. And then you moved up here. So how big is your family? Is it just you, your mom and your dad? ST: No, we have like, I got two brother and one sisters. WV: Ok. How old are they? ST: The, my sister is older. She is around 27. 28. WV: What about your brothers? ST: He is 25. And another one is 23. WV: Ok. So, you're all a bit older. Adults then. Do they all live here in Logan? ST: No. Two stay in Thailand. One in Logan. WV: Ok. [06:39] WV: Um, so, let's see... so I guess- well, both here in Logan as well as um, growing up in the camps, did you uh- have any celebrations that you guys would do, like any special holidays? ST: Yeah, like, especially like birthdays, yeah, we celebrated. Also, like New Years in camp, we did it. But, in here, we have a really big space. But they did it in Salt Lake City. WV: Um, so, I guess how do Karen people celebrate birthdays? Do they do things very differently? ST: Um, not really different. But, like most of them kinda do it on Sundays after church. So, like, they just go and announce it at our church. So, after church, everyone gonna come back and like, at the house and but, yeah, we celebrated together. WV: Ok. Uh, where do you go to church? Or what church do you attend? ST: Uh, it's in Smithfield. WV: It's out in Smithfield? ST: Yeah, and its' in Smithfield. WV: What church out in Smithfield? ST: Uh, I don't really know what to call it. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 6 WV: I'm trying to think what that would be. I've only been there a few times. Is it, mostly just other members of the Karen community that go there, or is it, sort of a mixed group? ST: Uh, no, just Karen people. WV: Ok. ST: Just Karen that go there. WV: So it's a lot of, so I guess a lot of your celebrations are just within the community, so sort of everyone's welcome? ST: Mhm. WV: Um, so do you remember much, growing up in the camps, about maybe the political environment, or did you just, know that you weren't really supposed to go outside? ST: Well, I grew up in a camp, but you know sometimes they will tell us not to go out of the camp, or something. Yeah. That's how, but sometimes they let us, you know it's kind of difficult. If you don't have jobs, you need money, right? So you have to go out, but if like, they catch you, they just gonna take you away. Because, yeah. You are a refugee, so, yeah. WV: You were about 14 when you left, right? ST: Yeah, I was about 14. WV: So did you, I guess, what was the youngest age that people would work there in the camp? ST: Work, I think, maybe, I don't know, like 10? 12? I don't know, if you want to, you can, because there's no limit of age. WV: Ok. What kind of jobs are available for you know, 10 or 12 year old kids to do? ST: I, well, you know, just random jobs. Like, maybe, just going and like plant corn, maybe, yeah. When I was like, 12, like, they just go and like cut rice. Harvest. WV: Were the fields inside the camp? ST: No. Not inside. Like, just everything just outside of the camp. WV: Ok. ST: Because inside of the camp, just only going to be homes, adn then, yeah. WV: Oh, so they just had houses and things? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 7 ST: Yeah, house, school, and hospital. Yeah. Church, monastery. WV: So, like about how big was the camp? ST: How big? WV: Was it pretty small and kind of cramped together, or was it pretty spread out? ST: You know, some part is, like, homes are less sticking together. It depends on how you build them. Some people they wanna build homes that stick with each other, but some people have like a bit space. Small space between each home and another one. [10:45] WV: Um, so was the camp you lived in, was it one of the UN camps, or was it a Thai military camp? ST: It's a UN camp. WV: So is that how you found out about being able to come over here to the States was from the UN workers? ST: Well, I think, I'm not really know about that, because like my parents took care of that, so yeah. I think they might hear from their friends. WV: So when you first moved here to the US, how was it adjusting to living in Salt Lake? ST: Adjusting? Well, you know, first time when I get here, I don't really know, like live, or act. But, later I get used to it, after I go to school, and like, yeah. That's how. WV: So did you have, um, did you have help from the government, or any of the local community, as far as adjusting to living here? ST: Yeah, we do. Because, like when we moved here first, we received medicaid and stuff like that. WV: Was that through the government, or was that people in the community helping? ST: The government. WV: Okay. Um, so what about, um, living here up in Logan, how do you like it? ST: Well, I really like it, because I, well, in my sight, I see like homes, there's space between one and another, but when I live in Salt Lake City, I saw the apartments like kinda sticky. So I just Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 8 used to living in home that, like, live like with space between other ones, so I like it better than Salt Lake. WV: Yeah, Salt Lake is- [LAUGHTER] pretty packed. ST: Yeah. Sticky traffic. [LAUGHTER] WV: Yeah, traffic is really really bad. ST: Heavy traffic. WV: Um, so how has it been, um, adjusting to being a college student for you? Because you said you were doing 8th grade when you first arrived in Salt Lake? ST: Yeah. WV: So how has going to college been for you? ST: Well, going to college, well, it's kinda hard to say. You know, but, because like you have to study a lot, so yeah. WV: So did you learn any English when you were over in Thailand, or did you start learning when you were arrived here? ST: When I live in Thailand, I used to learn abcs and stuff like that, I learn the alphabet later. So yeah, just, yeah, later. [LAUGHTER]. WV: Ok. So you knew a bit before you got here? ST: Yeah. WV: Um, so, how does your, like your home here in Logan, compare to your home in the camp? ST: Well, it's a lot better. Because there, um, you know, inside of the camp, so it's like, the home was made of wood and stuff like that. In here like you don't build with that. So yeah, but it's a different thing. There just only from one family stay inside here in an apartment. So, like, people stay, like stay away from one another. WV: So, I guess one of the things that, you know, that we're looking at, and sort of asking the people we've been meeting with is, is there anything that, you know, you feel, is important for you to be able to share with other people here in Cache Valley? You know, either about your Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 9 experience, or your family, like is there anything that, if you could, um, that you would like to tell us? Does that make sense? ST: Mhm. Well, I think that living in the USA life, live under regulations and stuff. Then, it's good to be better for us if we follow them than if we didn't. Because we know that in the US everyone live under the rules, so we can get in trouble if we don't follow them. Yeah. [15:30 PAUSE FOR A FEW SECONDS] WV: So, as far as what you've been able to accomplish since you came here to the US, what things are you most proud of, that you've been able to do since you came here. ST: Well, um, I'm proud of like, I can speak better than I used to before. So, yeah. I'm proud of that, so I can like help my family and my brother who need my help later on. WV: So are you the one that, do you speak, um, are you only one in your family that speaks English? ST: Yeah. WV: Ok. So I guess one of the things that I'm just curious about is, what do you do for fun or in your spare time? ST: Well, in my spare time, I like to play Takraw, sometimes I read a book. WV: What was the first one? ST: Takraw. WV: What is that? ST: It's a game. Southeast Asian game. WV: Uh, could you tell us a bit about it? ST: Yeah, well, it was [clears throat] the ball is about this size big. It's like, well, you know, it's kinda hard when it's like not really new, it's kind of getting soft. So yeah, it's just like foot volleyball, you call it. You can only use your head, your knee, your side foot and front foot. But you can't use your hand. WV: So it's kind of like a cross between volleyball and soccer then? ST: Yeah. Volleyball. Like, yeah, volleyball and soccer, like just only three touch. WV: Ok. Um, so how, like, what are some of the rules to it, how does it work? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 10 ST: Three people in a team. Well, you can touch it only three times one side. So you can pass one, to you, and one to her, and then over the net. I can do this only three time and then put it into another side, like just over the net. Just like that. WV: So what exactly is the ball made of? I think I've seen maybe a picture or two, ST: Yeah, plastic. WV: Just plastic? ST: Hard plastic. WV: So how does it work with, you know, like scoring, how do you determine who wins? ST: Well, there's a score, so, like, if you score like, there's a line, just like a, yeah. A line. You have to hit inside of the lines. So, yeah, you get a score, or like put it- there's a lot of activity you can do, called roll spike, back kick, so yeah. WV: Um [LAUGHTER] I don't know anything about it... so you said roll spike? ST: Yeah. You flip and kick in the air. WV: Like, you flip through the air? ST: Yeah, you kick in the air. WV: Um, hmm. What kind of court is it played on? Is it cement, do you play in the sand or the grass or? ST: Well, you can play anywhere, maybe. Yeah, cement. On grass. But, you know, it depends on people, where they wanna play. So you can do that. [18:57] WV: Um, let's see. So does the net, is it like a volleyball net? ST: It's small. WV: In the one picture I saw, ST: Yeah, it's smaller. WV: OK. Just to keep the teams on opposite sides. ST: Yeah, because, you know, people kick the ball really hard. If you have about this size big, the ball can't go through it. The ball... Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 11 WV: So are you supposed to go, sorry... So you said it's about, maybe, ST: The ball is about this big. WV: So the ball is maybe a small watermelon size, ST: Yeah. WV: and the net is, are you supposed to shoot through the net? ST: No, over. WV: Over. Okay. How high up does it sit? Like, where does the net hang? ST: Five feet and maybe, yeah. Five feet or five one or two. Or um, WV: Okay. So it is very [LAUGHTER] sorry, I just find it really interesting, I've just never heard about this before. So it is very difficult to kick up over the net, do you have out of bounds, can you kick outside of-? ST: well, you can, like, if you kick it out of the line, so it's out, so you won't receive a point. WV: Mhm. ST: So you're supposed to get the ball and kick it inside of the line. Where they tell you to kick, because three people in the team. Maybe one people serve it at the back, the other one's going to give another people ball, so the other one is going to spike it. Like, yeah. WV: So, about how big is the um, I guess, the court? ST: The court? Yeah, well, probably about this wide. Maybe a bit wider. WV: So maybe, fifteen feet across? Roughly? ST: I think so. But I don't really get it down. I would have to check it on the internet. WV: So do you just decide when you're playing, is there a regular point limit, does it go by time? ST: No, just like regular point limit. WV: Ok. So what do you usually, what's the score to win typically? ST: 15 point. WV: 50? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 12 ST: 15. WV: Oh, [LAUGHTER], 15. ST: Yeah. But it just, we do it kind of like international count. So, yeah, if I get the ball, I score it. I got one point. If I get the ball, but I didn't score it. The point goes back to 0-1. But like you get the ball. You might, play like that. WV: So you can lose points? ST: No, you cannot lose points. If I score yours right? WV: Mhm. ST: Right now, I've got the ball, so I score into yours, so I get one point. Next ball, I kick it, but I didn't score it, so the point goes back to 0-1. If you score, then you get 1-1 like me. If you score another one, you get 2-1. WV: Ok. Gotcha. [LAUGHTER]. ST: If I got the ball, so you score my point first- WV: Okay. I think I got it. So is that, is that just like from the Karen or Burma area, or is that common all over Southeast Asia? ST: Maybe not all over. Because they play all over. Not just Karen people. Thai. China. Japanese. Korean. Philippines, Malaysia. Indian. A lot. WV: Hmm. I've never heard of that before. What was that called again? ST: Takraw. WV: How do you spell that? ST: S-C-P-A-K WV: S-C ST: P-A-K. Space. T-A-K-R-A-W. WV: T-A-K-R-O what? ST: R-A-W. T-A-K-R-A-W. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 13 WV: Oh, it's two separate words? Gotcha. So, how often do you play then? Is it something that you- ST: Well, when we have the time and we're not busy. And it's on a sunny day to play one. WV: [LAUGHTER] So you haven' t been able to play recently then? With the rain. ST: not really. When it's cloudy or rainy, you don't really play, because its' kind of cold. Then like we're worried it's going to be slippery too, because you just use only your foot. So yeah, that's why. WV: So do you play indoors in the winter, or do you guys not play at all here? ST: We don't really have a space, so we don't really play indoors, so we don't play. WV: Okay. Um, so what's the uh, sorry, I just looked up at your flag, and I see that you have these little pictures pinned to it, what are those? ST: No, that's- [LAUGHTER], we just pin that up. WV: So there's nothing to it. ST: No, nothing. Just only, we just, yeah... the flag. WV: So I'm kind of curious, because again, I've seen a couple of these, what exactly does the flag, or the marks and colors on the flag mean? ST: Um, well, you mean the mark? There is nine like, nine. Is that what you mean? WV: Well yeah, the lines, the stripes, and then the- ST: There is nine mark right. It means like nine place. WV: What does that symbolize? ST: Nine place. Like, nine place. WV: So just nine different places? ST: Yeah. Nine different places. WV: What exactly is that referring to? Like is it nine specific places, or? ST: Yeah, nine different places. So, but I don't really know. My parents just told me about it. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 14 WV: Ok. ST: So like, we learn about it from school. Nine different places. Or, maybe [LAUGHTER], I don't know. WV: And what's the, I think that's a drum? The yellow thing in the center? ST: Yeah, it's kinda maybe drum? Yeah. WV: Does it, have any specific kind of drum or is it-? ST: Yeah, specific kind of drum, like for Karen people. WV: Where is it used? ST: Used? Like, in it have, like many different kinds of it. Because like, there is not just only one. It has different specific names. So yeah. WV: So there's like different types of drums, then? ST: Yeah. WV: Are they all called the same thing, and there's just different shapes and sizes? ST: Different shapes and size. [25:55] WV: So what kind of, I mean, you know events or things are those drums used for? ST: You know, some people, they're gonna hit it while they announce things, or yeah. Sometimes, they gonna hit it, like, you know, depends on what situation they got. Like, maybe on the solar they're gonna hit one. So like there's a different drums on the solar, lunar or solar, or something like that. Maybe on a, maybe fast, or celebration they're going to hit, like a different one. It's not the same one. There's, like, many kinds that are different. WV: Okay. Um, what are those drums called? Do you know? ST: I just know in my language. [LAUGHTER]. WV: Okay, you don't have a translation for it? ST: No, no. WV: Um, so besides, so you have, Karen New Year is in December, is that right? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 15 ST: January. WV: Oh, January. ST: January first. WV: So what other, uh, do the Karen people have any other specific holidays? ST: Maybe, Independence Day. Independence, yeah. WV: When is that? ST: August 12th. WV: OH, that's my birthday. ST: [LAUGHTER] Really? WV: Yeah. [LAUGHTER]. So that's Karen Independence Day? ST: Uh-huh. I think it was the revolution day instead. Revolution. WV: Okay. So is that, is that what started the conflict with Burma? ST: Uh, yeah. That is. No, it's like the president, like, dead day. Like, they go to a congress, along the congress, like rest, they got killed. So, like they mark it as the revolution day. WV: So one of the things that I don't know too much about, maybe you could tell me, is, what exactly started the conflict between Burma and Karen? ST: Well, at first, like, after maybe British leave, but they left the land, so they thought like, maybe Burma, like, so, like, they can just discuss to each other, like if their land goes to like everyone, or something. But after the Karen go and declare, their like land, from Burma, they didn't ask for it. But Burma's like, uh, told them, I don't really know what to call it now. They didn't give the lands to like, so like, they have to fight. So, yeah. WV: So, Burma didn't honor the deal that was made, is that it? ST: Kind of like that. If we call it Burma, it's not right, because there's a lot of nations that is Burma, who's not soldier, you know? So yeah, there's a specific name for the soldier that we are fighting with. WV: Okay, so you guys make a distinction between regular Burmese people and the Burmese military? ST: Yeah, so if we call Burmese like, that's almost everyone who lives in Burma. So, yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 16 WV: Um, what, term do you use to distinguish the two? ST: Well, uh, one I don't really what to call it. MSPDC, I don't really know what to call it. In our own language, or Burmese language, we call it like another one. WV: So you just have a separate term for the military? ST: Mhm. WV: So how big is Karen as a state? ST: Uh, I don't really know, but I use to learn it, but I already forgot. [LAUGHTER]. ST: Like several, eight nations inside of Burma, each nation go to separate one states, so like, you know, we have this big, each one takes a small one. Small one just is a small one after. WV: So is it organized sort of like the United States the country, but Utah is a state. Is it the same kind of thing? ST: Yeah, it's just like another state, but in here, but just everyone is like the same. Like same nation, same- you know like, but this place is different. Different nations that are separated from another one. So, like, everyone have their own state. They speak different language. Just not the same. The Karen are, but Burmese is just the dominant language in Burma. Everyone speaks it. WV: So do most people speak multiple languages there/ So does everyone learn Burmese, but you might learn Karen as well? ST: Burmese is the most dominant language. Because we call it Burma, so, like everyone is just supposed to know Burmese. WV: So how many languages do you speak? ST: Two or three. Three maybe? Yeah. WV: So what are the three? ST: Just my own language. And then English, and then, yeah, Thai. WV: Okay. And did you pick up Thai in the camp? When you were growing up? ST: Yeah. [31:39 BRIEF PAUSE] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 17 WV: Um, so, if things in Burma were, you know, not as chaotic, would you wanna move back, or do you like living here in the United States? [Faucet in the kitchen is turned on] ST: Probably maybe just, stay here for a while. And but I'm not sure about going back. Probably some time I might go back. WV: Would you go back to visit, or would you go back to live? ST: Just for a visit. WV: So you said that you had a sister who is still in Thailand, is that right? ST: Mhm. Sister and brothers. WV: So did they grow up in the camp, too, and just not leave? Or- ST: Uh, yeah. Because they already have wife and husband, so they just stayed there with their husband and wife. WV: Oh, so they just stayed with their own families. ST: Mhm. WV: Okay. [32:43 BRIEF PAUSE] WV: Trying to think. So is there anything else that, I mean, you, maybe that I haven't asked you, that you'd like to talk about or, ST: Uh, well, probably. [LAUGHTER]. Not. I, can't think of anything. WV: I guess, when, so Chit Moe contacted you about meeting with us, right? ST: Yes. WV: So what, I guess was your initial interest in talking to us? ST: Talking to us? Well, like... [PAUSE]. So, just like, if we talk about ourselves. If you come visit, if you're new, and you talk about our nation, or you question us so you know about part of it, so yeah. WV: Ok. Um, okay, I think that's most of the questions that I have, do Meagan or Bethany have any questions? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 18 BH: I, I have some questions. ST: Okay, sure. BH: Um, so, back- back to the game that you were talking about, it just sounds really interesting. Takraw, right? ST: Yeah, Takraw. BH: Uh, is that a game that you learned in the refugee camp? ST: Yeah, we learn it since we were little. We used to play. We just tried to play random things. BH: Okay, so you played that quite a bit there? ST: Just tried to kick around. BH: Um, are there other games that you would play in the camps? ST: Uh, soccer as well. BH: Just those two pretty much? ST: Mhm. BH: and was that because, you were there, as a young a pretty young child, right? ST: Yeah. BH: So- oh, sorry. ST: Go ahead. BH: So, is it kind of most of what you would do in the day, or did you have other responsibilities? ST: Well, because we're students, so we're supposed to read, but I was lazy to read. So, yeah. Sometimes, after we read, we just kinda go and just maybe watch movies. Except for when we had free time we just go out and shoot birds. Well, we never found, or when we never found them we just kind of go like that. When we have a friend we played soccer. BH: Okay. So it's cool that you kinda had different activities. ST: Mhm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 19 BH: Different things that you could do by yourself and things that you could do with other people. ST: Yep. BH: And, um, I... I actually, I'm curious about this- ST: Oh, that's a calendar. BH: A calendar? ST: Yeah. BH: Is that from Burma? ST: Yeah, I think that's form Burma, or- BH: Is that Burmese written on there? Burmese or Karen? ST: It's Karen. It's,yeah, it's Karen. BH: Cool. Is that, I guess, is the calendar system the same? ST: Yeah, the same, but, you know, we have like New Years, and like, you know, sometimes we kind of like there's some another month, there are differences from USA calendars. So yeah, that's how we do it. Sometimes we compare. Sometimes which one... [LAUGHTER]. BH: Okay. I guess, I'm not really close enough to like, look at the, the material, but. ST: You can go and look BH: I can go and look? ST: Yeah, yeah. BH: Because it looks, um, okay. So it's like ST: There is- there is an English, I think. BH: Oh, there is? ST: Yeah, I think so. BH: Cool. So it, I mean, it looks like, uh, I was thinking maybe it was something kind of like your carpet here, that was, uh, or the rugs that was maybe liked stitched together, but it looks like something that's printed off. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 20 ST: Yeah, that one is printed off. BH: Okay. Cool. I might have had another question, do you have any questions? [To Meagan] MG: So you said you were going to church. ST: Yeah. MG: What religion are you? ST: Christian. MG: Okay. WV: So it just like a general Christian church that you go to? ST: Yeah, just like that. WV: Okay. BH: I just thought of another. [LAUGHTER]. ST: Sure. BH: So I'm looking, I'm trying to look at different pictures. And so I see up here there are these two photographs, are either of these, are you in these? ST: Yeah, I'm in the small one. My brother is in the other one. BH: In this one? ST: Uh-huh. When I came to Logan. BH: Yeah? SO these pictures are from when you first got here? ST: Bear Lake. BH: Oh, Bear Lake? ST: Mhm. BH: Cool, I was just curious about those. Is there, and this is just a curiosity, but is there anything about Burma, or Karen that you, uh, that you kinda miss? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 21 ST: Well, a thing I miss? I don't really know about what I miss, but you know, a good thing that I miss, because in Thailand there's a war, that we didn't get to face it. So yeah, good thing for us, so we didn't have to flee. Yeah, but, if you ask the elder people who used to live, like sixty or seventy years, if you ask them, they will you about the stories of like having to flee from Burma. Or like the army, yeah. If it like getting dark, they have to pack up things, and call up their family and start leaving. Yeah. WV: So your family was able to avoid most of that, then? ST: Well, I don't really choose to ask my parents about that. WV: Mhm. [38:56] WV: You don't really remember having to deal with any of that. ST: No, I didn't have to, because I was just born in the camp. And we couldn't really go anywhere, so, I didn't know like, what happened later. I know that we're like still a kid when it happened, so I didn't really know about anything. WV: Do you guys have any other questions, or- [PAUSE] So, I mean, I guess we're just about done, then. Is there anything else that you, maybe, again, that we haven't asked? That you'd still like to talk about? ST: Probably not. [LAUGHTER]. I don't really know how to ask questions. WV: I guess, maybe, okay, final question. How exactly are these made? These rugs? I've seen a lot of them. ST: Yeah, just like a carpet for us. Where we lived, we used to cover our floor with this. WV: Mhm. ST: Like, if you cover your floor with this, and it gets dirty, it doesn't like, get on the carpet. So you can clean it easily. WV: Right. ST: Yeah, so yeah. It's made with plastic, I think. I'm not really sure. WV: I was going to say, because are these from- did you bring these from Burma, or did you get them here? ST: Just get them here in a convenience store. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 22 WV: So these would normally be, made out of this kind of plastic material then, or are these usually like uh, cloth or something that these are usually made out of? ST: Probably, I am not sure about them being cloth. WV: Or, cloth... what else do you make rugs out of? [LAUGHTER]. I clearly don't know much about rugs. Um, yeah. That's just about all the questions that I've got. So thanks again for being willing to meet with us. And I think we're good. ST: So you wanna see the game? I'll show you the games. WV: Sure. ST: Yeah? [Movement. End of recording.]
Snay Tun 1995
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 67
Van de Water, Wes 1989
Van de Water, Wesley; 1989
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67617
Audio Recording of Oral History
98115 Bytes
Tun Lay interview transcript, May 16, 2015
Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice
Tun Lay talks about his journey from Burma to Logan, Utah. He describes his time spent in refugee camps and the differences between his life then and his life now.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Tun Lay Present: Tun Lay, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan Gill Place of Interview: Tun Lay’s home in Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 16, 2015 Language(s): Pwo Karen; English Translation: Interviewer: Bethany Hanks Interpreter: Chit Moe Recordist: Wes Van de Water Photographer: Meagan Gill Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 17, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 18, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Tun Lay describes his life as a Karen refugee. He talks about his life in Burma during war, and the hardships placed on him by the Burmese military in trying to earn a living as a farmer. He explains how he escaped from Burma to Thailand refugee camps, and how he eventual brought his wife and child to live with him there. Tun Lay recounts his experiences in various refugee camps (including fleeing villages burned by Burmese military, his religious path, and family), and also how he eventually came to the United States (first Salt Lake City, Utah; followed by Logan, Utah). He discusses how he came to live in Cache Valley, Utah, and how he has adjusted to living and working in the United States. Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator TL = Tun Lay TLI = Tun Lay’s words interpreted by translator WV = Wes Van de Water WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator MG = Meagan Gill MGI = Meagan Gill’s words interpreted by translator Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 2 NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] BH: Okay. Today is May 16, 2015, and this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water and Meagan Gill. We are students at Utah State University, and we are working on a project called “Voices: Refugees in Cache Valley.” Right now we are visiting Tun Lay in his home, in Logan, Utah, and Chit Moe is our translator. So, first of all thank you, Tun Lay, for letting us come here into your home. BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] BH: First, I would like to know what is your full name, and your birth year? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: My name is Tun Lay and I was born in 1958. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Oh, 1954. I’m sorry, 1954. BH: Okay. Thank you. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And May 28th, 1954. BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: He speaks Karen, Pwo Karen and Burmese, but right now we are speaking Pwo Karen. BH: Okay; so not Burmese? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 3 TLI: No, it’s not Burmese. BH: Okay; very cool. Can you tell me about your family? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yes. BH: So, do you have other family members? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: He has a family here, but not relatives. BH: Oh, okay. So you have family here, but not relatives? So like you have a brother and sister, or I don’t know if I quite understand? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I have a wife [laughs] – BH: Oh, okay. TLI: And three children – one is married (and he is in Arizona), and the other two live with me. BH: Wow, so they live here? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yes, two live with him, and the other one is in Arizona. BH: Okay. Were your children – were they born here? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 4 TLI: No, none. BH: None? Where did you live before? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Before I was in Burma in the city called Tun Aung; the name of the city is Tun Aung. [Translator speaking to interviewer] Should I spell it? BH: Yeah, how do you spell that? TLI: Tun Aung (I think): T-U-N A-U-N-G. Tun Aung. [Translator speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: P-U, actually. It’s P-U. BH: P-U-N? TLI: No, just P-U. BH: Oh, just P-U? [04:02] TLI: Pu Aung. BH: Pu Aung. TLI: That’s the name of the city. BH: Wow. Can you tell me a little about this city? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Ever since I was born in that city, I grew up; when I got old I married to my wife, then we moved to Thailand and now we’re in America. But I can tell you step by step of the process of what I’ve been through. BH: I would love to hear, step by step, the process. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 5 BHI: [Repeating remark in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, he is going to explain it step by step. BH: Okay. TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So when I got married I had one kid. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So my occupation was being a farmer and raising cows and other animals. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Me living in the United States, there are difficulties here. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Oh, it’s still in Burma, actually (my mistake). BH: In Burma? TLI: Yeah. So we faced difficulties in Pu Aung, in Burma. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So in Burma there are difficulties, meaning we were in fear of Burmese military, and we couldn’t do work freely. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So between Burmese military and the Karen military, they were in war and we were really scared. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So we couldn’t do our work when there was a war because the Burmese military would come to our village and take us as porters – you know, forcing us to do work for them. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 6 TLI: So if they couldn’t find us, they would go to our work place and kind of drag us to where they wanted to take us; if not, they would come at night and just force us – just drag us out of our house. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Living there was really difficult, and I couldn’t do any work; so moving around and I ended up in Thailand. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I was just following strangers, being stranded, and that’s how I got to Thailand. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So living in Thailand many, many years I have learned and found the U.N., which is a great organization which helps the refugees: they give food and shelter. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [08:39] TLI: So from what I see from what I learned, I wanted my wife to come to Thailand in a refugee camp. So I started telling her to do the same process, you know, asking strangers for a ride, being stranded; and that’s how she also got to a Thailand refugee camp. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So living there many, many years I had two children. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So living there for many, many years again, we were given like a photo ID for living in a refugee camp (like a permanent resident thing). TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: [Responding to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So after a few years we learned that the UN were telling people that they could go to other countries (like United States, Australia). And then they told us that we had to fill out an application, and we did it. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 7 TLI: So many people in a refugee camp came to such other countries, and I was also one of them. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So in June it will be – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: In June 11th of this year it will be – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: It will be seven years of my family living in Utah, in the United States. BH: Wow. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Living here is very, very peaceful, happy for me and my family; I have work, I have food, I mean, there is nothing to worry about (like being free, peaceful), you know, being free. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I am very, very happy, and I am very glad I am in this state and in this country. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So everything I was born living in Burma was really difficult, and there was many difficulties; and there are many, many things that I have faced that I just can’t talk about it all at the same time because there are just many, many difficulties. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And my family and I are very, very thankful to the UN, which they provided us food and shelter; we are very, very thankful to them. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, being in Utah is the same thing: many people help us out, you know, getting us a house (for example), and yeah – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 8 TLI: So when I first came to the United States I was in Salt Lake for a year, and now I am in Logan for almost six years. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [12:25] TLI: And I am very happy for being in Logan, and I have a job in JBS, and I have worked there for almost seven years. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Just like that. BH: Wow. So you mentioned going from Burma to Thailand, and it sounds like you would take rides from strangers. Can you describe a little bit more about maybe what the journey was like going from Burma to Thailand? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So number one key is between Burma and Thailand, there were a lot of people who were like transporter (I would say): they would do business across each country – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Okay, some people would hire other people – I mean, some people would go to Thailand, buy a lot of food, and then they would hire people and take it back to Burma and sell it there. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I was one of the people who got hired. I was carrying bags, you know, back and forth and that’s how I got to Thailand. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And when I got to Thailand I saw Thai people, you know, they were hiring people to do work, and I was one of the workers in there as well. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So from there, working there for a few months – as I was crossing from Thailand to Burma, I saw a refugee camp (which I also heard about it), and that’s when I started going to the refugee camp asking people, maybe to see if there is anyone I know, and Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 9 people were telling me that, “It’s better here,” you know, “we have food; we are stuffed. You should come and live over here.” TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And that’s when I tell my wife and my child to also come up to the refugee camp to live with me. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And living there many, many years – that’s when that organization, they were you know, taking applications; and that’s how I got here. BH: Okay; wow. After you fill out an application, is it difficult to get into the camp – the refugee camp? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] [16:16] TLI: So there was no application to get to the refugee camp. What you do is that you go talk to – so in the refugee camp there is a certain section where they put you in – you just go talk to the leader, just talk to him or her, and then he would like take you to another person who is like the leader for the whole camp. And then that’s when you started telling your story, and that’s when they can tell whether you’re lying, or whether you’re telling the truth and how difficult your life was; and that’s how they accept me to live in the camp. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So why they were asking me questions, you know, how my life was, I have to tell the truth and later on they would have to, you know, figure out whether that’s the truth or not. If it’s true, then they let me live in there; if not, then no. BH: Okay. Was it difficult for your wife and your child to also come over? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 10 TLI: There was no difficulty for my wife and child to come to the refugee camp because I was already there, and all I had to do was tell the leader – tell him that my wife is coming, and he would be like, “Okay, that’s fine.” But the difficulty was for my wife and child to get to the refugee camp – that was one of the difficulties. Because fortunately my wife speaks Burmese, so sometimes she would speak in Burmese and people would think, “Oh, she’s Burmese, just let her go.” And sometimes the military would think that, “Oh, this is a very pitiful family, just let them go.” And that’s how they got to the refugee camp. BH: Wow. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Tun Lay’s daughter and one of his sons enter the room. His daughter greets everyone.] BH: Hello. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So for me and my family, on my way to the refugee camp, we have met with Karen military, and they were very nice, very generous; they helped us – [Tun Lay’s daughter drops something on the floor; she apologizes.] TLI: You know, they help us get to another place and they were really nice. BH: Okay. So was it dangerous at all – that trip from Burma to Thailand? I’m just wondering if – because it sounds like you rely a lot on strangers – is that difficult to do, is that scary? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] [19:56] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So one thing is that once you reach the border between Burma and Thailand, it’s easier – you can just walk to the refugee camp with nothing to worry about. BH: Okay. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Once you reach Thailand border – you can either walk there or take a ride from the Thai military, and you can just pay them $5 or $10. BH: Wow. So can you describe for me a little what your surroundings were in the refugee camp – like what it looked like? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 11 BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So when I was in the refugee camp there was a city called Kue Bong [??] (I don’t know how to spell that), but Kue Bong – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So you know, like I said, there was a city really close to the refugee camp; in that camp – we lived there for a few years, and then Burmese military were coming and they burned the whole village down. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And then we started, after the Burmese military were coming to burn our refugee camp, we moved to another camp, which is called – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: [Speaking to the interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Kue Bong was the first refugee camp that I was in, and after a few years the Burmese military were coming, burned down the village; and then I got to another town which is called – [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Kwe Ka Lu [??] TL: Kwe Ka Lu TLI: Kwe Ka Lu. K-something. Got it? BH: Kwe Ka Lu TLI: Um-hmm. [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 12 TLI: And living there for one and a half years, the Burmese military were there again, and they burned the village down and we started – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So after when the Burmese military were coming and, you know, burning the village down we got help from the UN. They took us over the mountains, and we started living on a mountain – it’s called Umpium camp right now. A lot of Karen people were there as well; it is on a mountain. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So I can still remember the year that I got to the Umpium camp – it was 1999. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So starting from 1999, I lived in the Umpium camp all the way until 2008; and that’s when I started coming to the United States. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: June 11th, 2008, was the date I departed from the refugee camp. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And I lived in Salt Lake for one year, and now I’m here in Logan for six years. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yep, that’s pretty much it. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Living here is really a good thing for me, you know; you can go anywhere you want, you have a job. I’m really happy. [24:40] BH: That’s good. Let’s see – so can you tell me a little about your first months here, in the United States; and maybe the problems and the difficulties, but maybe also the good things that you saw? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 13 TLI: When I first arrived in the United States my family, we were put in a house (like in an apartment), and people were saying, “Later on, if you guys cannot pay the rent, you guys will be kicked out.” And we were really worried, you know, and that was one of the fears that we had in our first month. And after a few months we had to do like a community service at CCS (in Salt Lake) where we had to go and give food to the people (I think they are the homeless, I think that’s the service). And after a few months I heard about the JBS and I came here, got a job, and that’s when I asked my family to move here. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So you know, in that first month there wasn’t a lot to do; but on the second month, like I said, I had to do service at CCS (it was fun), and I had to do it two days a week, and the other two days was me going to school to learn English. [27:59] BH: Wow. So when you came to the United States, did you have any prior knowledge of English? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: No, not at all; my wife, my children – nobody knows English. BH: Wow. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And I only know how to read Burmese, specifically. BH: Wow. So did that make it difficult to interact with people when you first moved here? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: It wasn’t really difficult because I was speaking with other Karen communities; and if I wanted to talk to an English speaker we had it translated. BH: Okay. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 14 TLI: So there wasn’t any difficulties. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So if we wanted to go buy groceries, we would ask someone who came here before us, you know, who has a car – and we would ask them to take us to buy food, groceries. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So if we needed help with anything we would go to IRC (it’s also in Salt Lake) and they have translators over there, you know; they have people that can help you with what you need. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Like I said, if we need help we can go to IRC, CCS or another place – it’s called DWS (it’s Department of Workforce Services); and they also have translators over there, you know. We would like ask someone who came before us to take us over there, or sometimes DWS will come and pick us up personally. BH: Wow. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So everybody surrounding me here – like all the Americans – they were really nice; they helped us in many ways. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And that is why I am living here really happy, my family is really happy. BH: That’s good. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] BH: So the reason why you moved to Logan was to work at JBS? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 15 TLI: Yes, that is correct. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So you know, when I was hired at JBS I worked there for one year. And then after that I went back to Salt Lake and I told my family to move with me to Logan, in this apartment (this house), and I haven’t moved ever since. BH: Wow. So I wonder if you could describe for me sort of the differences in food? Maybe some things that you used to eat in Burma, that maybe you can’t find here, or maybe you can? Maybe just a little bit about the food of your culture. BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So I have no problem eating American food here – it’s better than what I used to eat back there. BH: Okay. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, there are more food here than back in the refugee camp. BH: So what kind of food was available in the refugee camp? [33:06] BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: There are many, many foods. One is rice – they gave us oil, and beans, and – [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And peppers – chili; yeah, a lot of food – like food that is very sufficient for each family. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: They gave us food like once a month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 16 BH: Okay. So what kinds of food do you like to eat now that you’re here, in the United States? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: He said there are many; there is a lot of food in America (like chicken, fish) – I just, I like everything. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs] TLI: There are a lot of food, like – yeah, I just like everything. BH: Okay. So I wanted to ask how people respond when they find out you’re from Burma? I know you said in Salt Lake the people were really friendly, and so I just want to see if that’s still the case, or if people respond differently? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So when I got to the United States, I mean even when someone asked me where I’m from, “Burma.” “Yeah, okay.” There wasn’t any negative thing. BH: Okay, that’s good. Can you tell me a little about your home here, and how it’s different from your home in Burma? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So it’s really different here, houses – to describe it, it’s perfect, you know. But in Burma it’s very different, you have to build your own home; you have to use like bamboo to build it. And you have to make your own walls, but they’re not tight walls and wind can go through any time. It was really different from here. BH: Wow. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, or your family, or your ethnic group? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] [37:22] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 17 TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: He is not very clear on the question. BH: Let’s see if I can ask it a different way. Is there anything that you would like to share with the people around here that maybe they don’t know, or you wish they knew? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So I have a different message, you know: I want people to know – before that, I believe in God, and I want people to know that one day everybody will have a chance to live in heaven. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So I kind of asked him to make sure he understand that question, and – BH: Um-hmm? TLI: He said that there isn’t anything that he really wants to share because he feels that other people, you know, (other American people) I’m sure they have faced many difficulty as well (getting here) – maybe back in the day or something. So it’s probably the same story. BH: Okay. Would you ever be interested in going back to Burma? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I’m very happy here. I do feel like going back, but I don’t want to go back because my parents, my brothers – I don’t know where they are; in Burma, I don’t know where they’re at and I don’t want to go back. BH: Okay. What are you most proud of? TLI: Here, or? BH: Yeah, I would say what are you most proud of out of all of this: your experiences and traveling? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 18 BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I’m very proud, you know, to live each day being healthy and being happy day after day. So yeah, that’s what I’m really proud of. [41:20] BH: Thank you. And do you have any dreams for the future – either for yourself, or for your children? BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: For me, my family, my children, my family, my wife – for my family – I don’t have any dreams for us, but I do believe in God and I pray for us (for me and for my family) you know, to be healthy, to stay happy. Yeah. BH: Okay. I think those are all of my questions. But before we end, I just want to see if any of my colleagues have one as well. BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, you guys can ask questions. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: If I know the answer, I will answer it; but if I don’t, I don’t. WV: I’m just kind of curious who plays the guitar in the family – is that yours? WVI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, I used to – every Sunday when I pray with my family – I used to play the guitar every Sunday. WV: Nice. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 19 TLI: According to my religion, my Bible, it said that when you’re praying, you know, when you’re praying and asking for God’s help, you must play a song (you know, play with the guitar). BH: Wow. TLI: And so I’m doing it every Sunday. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I believe that – I know that we can’t see God, but I know God can help us in a way. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And how do I know this is because I am very healthy every day, and I have been doing work here for almost seven years and I am very healthy – and I know that God is helping me. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And at the same time I want to tell people that God is helping us, but if they want to listen, then I can tell them; if you don’t want to listen, then I don’t have to tell them. BH: Do you have any questions? MG: Yeah. What is your favorite thing about Cache Valley? What is your favorite thing to do here? MGI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: He doesn’t know what his favorite thing is. Is there an example you can give? MG: Hiking, camping – MGI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] [45:37] TLI: No, I haven’t done that – hiking or camping; I’ve just been driving around the city, going back to Salt Lake and eating at restaurants sometimes. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 20 TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs] TLI: Yeah, I’ve never been hiking. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: But I would like to go one day. BH: So actually, I thought of a couple more questions – if that’s okay? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, that’s fine. TL: [Laughs] BH: Okay. So you mentioned the guitar, and playing music is an important part of your religious observance – so I was just wondering if you could kind of describe your religious community; sort of, things about your religion? BHI: Community? BH: Yeah BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: I know that every religion has different beliefs, and there are different ways how you can pray to God; but my way is I read the Bible every day, and that’s how I understand God’s word. I remember when I was in the refugee camp, you know, and living there for eight years, I was going around to different religions, you know, listening to people giving speeches. One day I met this priest, you know, he taught me many valuable things, and he even asked me to be an heir priest – is that how you say it? Well, yeah. BH: Like an apprentice? TLI: Well to become the next priest. BH: Okay; to be like the replacement after him? TLI: Yes, yes. Yeah, he even asked me to become that – or if he has to go somewhere else, you know, I’d be taking his position to do all the religious things in the church. Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 21 TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So there are lots of gods; Americans call him Jesus, but the thing is you need to know which one is real, you know, which one is the real God. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So whether there are many gods, or just one God – if anybody want to listen, I can tell them the story. BH: If you want to share. BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So there is only one God that I believe in, you know; he cannot be sick, or he can heal – he can get all or any other things. Before anybody (any human being) exists, he lived here before, and he created the Earth, trees, everything. [50:20] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Another type of God is who can die, who heals, and it is called – [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And in Burmese it is called [Pwo Karen word] TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And the easier way to say is Pe Synga Piya[??] BH: Pe Synga – TLI: Piya. Pe Synga Piya. Yeah. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And he is a God that can die, and you know, and can’t heal people. And he is the God that the particular God created. Do you understand that? BH: He would – Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 22 TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So the one person God – he created another person who is also God, but he can die. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: If it’s God Jesus – there is only one Jesus. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And he is everybody – for everybody’s God. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: He can’t die, you know, he can’t get old – he is the only one. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: There is a guarantee, you know, that if anybody believe that there is God, that one particular person will be in heaven. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So if you believe God, you know, you have to follow his words; you have to read the Bible, you have to do what the Bible says. BH: So I have just one more question. BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: That’s fine. BH: You seem very interested in religion, and so I was wondering if that was a part of your life before you came to the refugee camp, or if that’s something that you really became interested in once you got to the refugee camps? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] [53:11] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 23 TLI: So I was really, really interested in God in the year 1999, and that was when I got to the refugee camp called Umpium; and that was when I was really interested in religion. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: So in the refugee camp there are a lot of people who just go around the camp, you know, telling stories, sharing God’s word, you know. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And I would go all over the place to listen to their speeches, you know; it can be night, or it can be day. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Why I wanted to know that is because I believe God is good, and you know – TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And you know, like I say, I started listening to those speeches every day, and that’s where I learned knowledge, you know, about religion. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And I understood a lot of words that – well, the speakers’ word. TL: [Laughs] BH: Very neat. So there were not very many people in Burma who spoke of these different religions? I guess I’m just wondering why it was so prevalent in the refugee camp – was it the same way in Burma? BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: No; I didn’t see any in Burma. BH: Wow. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Yeah, I started seeing it in the refugee camp. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Tun Lay Page 24 TLI: So when I was in Burma, I heard of such religions, but I had never seen it. BH: Okay. TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: When I first got to the refugee camp, you know, I was asked, “Do you know God? Do you know the real one, you know, the one that can heal, the one that can’t get old?” So I’m like, “Well God is good, so yes – I want to know.” TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] TLI: And now that I know a lot about God, you know, I do want to share it with people, to those who want to listen; but if you don’t want to listen, that’s okay. BH: So I think we are almost out of time, unfortunately – because we only have so much time that we can record on here. But it has been fascinating to listen to you. BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs] TLI: Thank you. BH: Thank you very much. BHI: [Repeating in Pwo Karen.] TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] TLI: Thank you. BH: So I think that’s the end of the interview. BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.] [End recording – 57:20]
Tun Lay, 1954-
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 69
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67619
182560 Bytes
Burma, Thailand, Salt Lake City, Logan (Utah)
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 68
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67618
55056796 Bytes
Kyaw Eh interview transcript, May 16, 2015
Karen State, Burma, Refugee camp, Immigration, Family, Languages, School
Kyaw Eh describes his life in Karen State, Burma. Along with his time in a refugee camp in Thailand, how he came to the U.S., the languages that he speaks, his family, and life here in Cache Valley, Utah.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Kyaw Eh Present: Meagan Gill, Wes Van de Water, Bethany Hanks, Kyaw Eh Place of Interview: Kyaw Eh’s home, Hyrum, Utah Date of Interview: May 16, 2015 Language(s): English Translation: Interviewer: Meagan Gill Interpreter: None Recordist: Bethany Hanks Photographer: Wes Van de Water Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 25, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Brief Description of Contents: Mr. Kyaw Eh describes his home village and family in Burma, and what his childhood was like growing up and working on a rice paddy farm. He talks about the civil war in Burma, and the inequalities and suffering the Karen people were put through by the Burmese military. He discusses life in the United States, and his religious (Buddhist) views on life, as well as his dreams of being able to help orphaned Burmese children attain health care and education one day in the future. Reference: MG = Meagan Gill KE = Kyaw Eh BH = Bethany Hanks WV = Wes Van de Water NOTE: [You will have to modify this as appropriate—whether using CommGap or in-person interpreter.] The interview was conducted with CommGap Interpretive Services; the interpreter joined the interview via a cell phone. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 2 TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] MG: Today is May 16th, 2015. This is Meagan Gill, I am with Wes Van de Water and Bethany Hanks; we’re students at Utah State University, and we are working on a project called “Voices: Refugees in Cache Valley.” I am interviewing Kyaw Eh? KE: Yes. MG: At his home in Hyrum, Utah. Thanks for letting us interview you. My first question is can you state your full name and your birth year for me? KE: My name is Kyaw; my birthday is August 15th, 1979. MG: Thanks. And what languages do you speak. KE: My home language is Karen (K-A-R-E-N) – Karen; but I can speak four languages. MG: What other languages? KE: Burmese, Thai and English (not really well). MG: Tell me about your family. KE: My family: I have two sister, and one brother – including me we have four in my – I have my mom and she live in [??], but my dad (since 1995) because he disappear (because we have our Karen Revolution to fight the Burmese government). They’re fighting since that year – he die or – we don’t anything about it; so he lost. There are a lot of people (Karen soldier) die in the war – we have a civil war. My dad – he die, or we don’t know anything; we don’t have any information – nobody can tell us if he is still alive or no. But we don’t know [??]. MG: There is no program or way to find out if someone has died or not? KE: No, no, no because it is really difficult because in the Karen state we live in the jungle in a mountain; we don’t have any electricity, we don’t have any internet, we don’t have any phone to contact each other. It’s really hard to find each other if somebody go away (for example). We have no way to meet each other again, I think. MG: Can you describe the ethnic or religious community you belong to (if any)? KE: I was born in Karen state in Burma – I am Karen ethnic group. My religion is Buddhist, Buddha, Buddhism. [03:41] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 3 MG: Tell me about the place where you were born. KE: I was born – about what? The place, what – describe? MG: Yeah. KE: The place where I was born is a – how is it called – it’s regional, like kind of the countryside (it’s not in a city). We had like a paddy farm: we grow the paddy: rice (paddy farm). We had a farm and we had animal like a cow, buffalo (something like that). We live just natural in the jungle or something like that; it’s not in a city. We don’t have any electric in our village. MG: How long did you live there? KE: Since I was born until – I grew up there, but I think because I moved to the refugee camp I lived there eight year. I moved from my place to the refugee camp since 1999 (around that), since I was born. MG: Okay. And why did you leave? KE: Because there are a lot of problem: we had a problem with Burmese soldier troop – when they come to our village they just give us whatever they want: torture us, and they just give us the (how’s it called?) – the bullet, the big – like they fire the gun. We have to carry, we have to follow them in the jungle wherever they go. We have to carry the heavy thing, the heavy bullets (something like that). For example, if we cannot carry it, they do whatever they want: even they can kill us, something like that. That’s why – especially for the men and the boy, for the men and the boy; but the woman is better than the man to live there. Mostly they just capture the men or the boy – have to follow them. MG: What all did they make the boys and men do? [06:23] KE: Excuse me? MG: What kinds of things did they make the boys and men do? KE: That’s what I told you – we have to carry the bullet or the gun with them, their food – because over there we don’t have any (how does it call it), the road, the car or the motorcycles go the road – we don’t have of the car road. We have to walk by our foot, our feet. We have to walk and go to the jungle because the Burmese troop – they go fight the ethnic group; they go to fight the ethnic group, that’s why they call us go with them. If they die, we die there; kind of like they are scary enemy – they just keep us the cover for them. That’s why we are scary or afraid to save our life – to save my life, that’s why I escape from my village and come to the refugee camp: to save. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 4 MG: Okay. Where did you relocate to first? KE: Pardon me? MG: Where did you go – where was the first camp that you went to? KE: Oh, yes – Mae La camp is where I live. Mae La camp we called – Mae La camp is on the Thai/Burma border. That’s went into in Thailand – is the border we have the refugee camps there. It is like the United Nation – they have the food, they give the clothes for the education, for the house; everything they provide the refugees there. There I study the camp a year – I go to school there. MG: What was it like there, from day to day? What kinds of things did you do? KE: We just go to school when I live there; we don’t have nothing to do because we cannot go outside the camp. MG: Um-hmm? KE: The Thai military – they control – the Thai authority, they don’t want the refugees go outside, spread anywhere (something like that). We have to stay at only in the camp: morning, go to school; after school, go home. We play: we have the playgrounds and play soccer, visit each other in the camps – just like kind of in a jail. I can say in a jail, like in a jail: we cannot go anywhere; just I would visit a friend in the camp. [09:20] MG: Can you tell me more about the food and any medical care you received in the camp? KE: The medical care? MG: Um-hmm. KE: I would say really good; pretty good. We have like a hospital: a medical care center; we have everything like that – it’s like other countries, and better than in Burma (a lot better than in Burma), but we don’t have to pay nothing. We go whenever we sick we go to the hospital, we have medicine or something, they check everything – it’s for free. We don’t have to pay nothing. MG: Did you celebrate any holy days or holidays in camp? KE: Oh, yes. Our Karen holidays, kind of like our Karen New Year, and then our Karen [??] Thai ceremony (we call it) we celebrate like a traditional celebrate every year in August. MG: Okay. Did you get any special materials to use for the holidays? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 5 KE: Oh no, we don’t have – no, we don’t have any specials give to [??]; no, nothing. MG: Were you able to make any like special food? KE: In celebrate? MG: For celebration? KE: For celebration? MG: Um-hmm. KE: We used to have like our Karen food and Karen New Year; yeah, we have just – we call (how do we call it) – it’s almost the same Thanksgiving in America (but we don’t have any turkey over there) [laughs] – it’s not turkey, but other food we ate. MG: Okay. What was it like working a paddy farm? KE: Paddy farm? MG: Um-hmm. KE: You have not seen – never seen paddy farm? No? MG: A few pictures, that’s it. KE: [Laughs] Alright, so how do you want to know the paddy farm? MG: Just day to day activities? KE: Oh, because you’ve seen the rainy season we grow the paddy since the seed, the rice (the paddy) seed we grow, and (how is it called) – we put the nursery (nursery, right?). We put the nursery and they grow for about one (how is it called?) – feet? MG: Um-hmm? KE: One feet, two feet, right? MG: Yeah. KE: Oh yeah, for about one and a half feet we have to take it off and transplant to the ground, to the paddy ground. We have to plow – you know the plows? MG: Um-hmm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 6 KE: With a cow – but right now they did lots with a machine. We plow the field – before, when I was young, we don’t have any machine: we have the cow or buffalo with a (how is it called – I don’t know how it’s called it) – we plowed the field to make the ground soft, we can plant the paddy plants in the field. And then for about two or three months (I think) it’s going to make a kind of flower and for about five months we can harvest. And then we can carry in our house or in paddy place. [13:38] MG: What was the political climate towards refugees in the camp? KE: Political climate? MG: Um-hmm. KE: I’m not sure regarding the political – I don’t have any idea of things regarding the political climate; I don’t know anything about it. MG: Did you feel safe in the camp? KE: It is more safer than in Burma. MG: Um-hmm. KE: It’s not like America; America more safer, better than the camp; a lot better than in the camp. But in the camps, better than in Burma (in Karen state) – it’s really bad, and the camps a little better. In America is a lot better. MG: How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program? KE: When I live in the camp, because we have (how does it call?) – we have a Karen leader (refugees leader) over there: they told us in 2006 or [200]7, around that. They have a ten country who were receive the refugee [??] to their country: kind of like Norway, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Poland, something like that, and the U.S. They have ten country – you can choose which country you want to go. Some of my friend (when I live there, we go to school the same: the same school, the same class) I have a lot of friend there – right now we are spread around the world. Some friend are interest in Norway, some other friend they go to Australia; but I choose the my choice: U.S. That’s why I come to here; that’s why I came here. MG: What made you choose the U.S.? [16:01] KE: I like because U.S. speak English. If I go to Norway, I have to learn another language again, and English again – that’s why I have to learn many language; that’s what I Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 7 thought. And if I come to U.S., I have to learn just only one language: English; and then the U.S., that was my idea was better than the other country: the education, for everything. But I never been the other country, but I just learn it in a newspaper or in a magazine; I just read about it. MG: Okay. How did you apply for the program? KE: Because we have to go to – because they have a (how does it call it?) the place to enroll, to enroll who want to go which country, you can come here or our refugee leader – they open like the United Nation or the UNHCR – the leader, they go to the refugee camps, they announce every refugee people who want to go to this country, this country. They have a opportunity lie there, they have a chance lie there, they have a different, like (how does it call it?) different chance, different opportunity, different rights. Each country is not the same; they let us know about this. And then I want to come to U.S., that’s why I enrolled – I put my name I will go to U.S., that’s why they take my names and my U.N. number or evidence. For about three or five months they put on a boat – we have to go and check our name are there; if my name is there I have to go, if I don’t have my name there, “What happened?” Or, “What have problem? I didn’t see my name there?” You can go to the refugee camp leader office, you can ask your name or what the problem – they reject, or what the reason they reject (something like that)? You can ask. MG: Who helped you apply? [18:45] KE: Because our leader over there – our leader in the camp, they help us. MG: Okay. When did you and where did you first arrive when you came to the U.S.? KE: Salt Lake City, Utah (2007), I think it was August 8th (around that). To this day I never moved to other state; since I arrive here I just stay here. MG: What were the first months like? KE: It was really shock for me; it was different, very different from my country. But I’m happy, the other ways I’m happy also because I have seen the different thing: different culture, different food – everything is different from my country. MG: What was the biggest shock? KE: The biggest shock was when snow time – when the snow was coming [laughs]; it was really, really shock for me. MG: Um-hmm? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 8 KE: Because when I live there since whole my life over there, I never seen snow. I just see in a video or movie like that, but I didn’t know how does it look like – that’s why it was very shock for the snow. MG: Have you tried skiing? KE: No [laughs], never. MG: Okay. Did you receive any help from U.S. or religious organizations? KE: Here? MG: Yes. KE: Yes, what about can I say for the food stamp, Medicaid (something like that) from the U.S. government; it was really good for me. Yes. MG: Okay. Do you have any suggestions for improvements for those programs? [21:09] KE: Which program? MG: The food stamp, or Medicaid – do you see anything that could be changed with that? Or do you think it worked okay? KE: It work okay; yeah, it’s okay for me but I’m not sure of other people. I think for me it is okay. MG: Let’s see – and how long have you lived here, in Cache Valley? KE: Since 2008 until now. MG: What do you do here? KE: I just work at JBS Swift Company beef plant here. MG: What’s it like for you and your family to live here, in Hyrum (or Cache Valley)? KE: I like here because it is better than Salt Lake (for me), for my personality I think – it is more safety here. And then there is no crowded car, there is not a lot of the car – it is really easy to go to the downtown Logan, we can visit easily. I like – it is the same is similar like my country here, like with a cow and a lot of horse and the buffalo (or something like that) in the field – like my country with the paddy field. That’s why I like Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 9 it, and the mountains and the stream with the lake; that’s what I’m growing in my country, it’s similar here so I like it here. MG: Okay. Do you feel included in the Logan community? KE: Included? MG: Um-hmm? KE: I’m not clear how to say “included?” MG: Do you feel like you’re a part of the community, or do you feel a little disconnected from everyone else? KE: Oh no, is yeah, included in that community, yeah; I feel it’s good, really good. It’s a family with the people here in Cache County, many people. And a lot of people (when I first arrived here) they help me a lot to go to store, to go to the shopping mall (something like that). And from here they have a – at first when I met her, Katie (do you know Katie?) – English language singer – they teach the English language for the refugees is really good here. Yeah, they help me a lot. [24:15] MG: Do you think that there is anything else that the community can do to help refugees? KE: Oh I think they still help the refugees until now, but do you know Nelda – I’m not sure what’s the organization she had up there – but Nelda, she help refugees a lot to apply food stamp, to apply to Medicaid, to read the letter from the school, read the letter from the DWS for the refugees. Because most refugee, they don’t know how to read and write in the letter, they have a problem: Nelda help them a lot. Yeah, it’s good. MG: Tell me a little bit about how your home looked like in your home country, and the difference with your home now. KE: Oh yes, it’s a lot different because in my country – my house in my country, we just built with the wood, the roof with the leaf (you know the leaf, the tree leaf, the big leaf) – we just made the roof of our house. We don’t have any like the wall close every side like this; we have to like – we can open the wind come through, come and go through our house. And it was a lot of different because we live style different, completely different from here because here is we have snow, we have to turn on the heat; in the summer time we have to turn on the air condition – but over there no, we don’t have nothing: no electricity, nothing, no internet, no phone, no TV. MG: Did it get really hot there? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 10 KE: Because we used to grow up there, it’s not really hot for us – it’s not really hot for me because we used to grow up there. If the people from the other country go there it is very, very difficult, very hard for them I think to live there; everything is different. MG: What would you like people in Logan to know about you and your family? [27:21] KE: I don’t know how to call it – to make the people in Logan to know my family? MG: Yeah, is there anything you would like to let them know about your family and you, or your ethnic group? KE: [Laughs] I don’t know because I don’t know how to answer it. MG: Would you like to go back to your country? KE: Yes, maybe one day; I have my dream. I still waiting the politic to change over there, the government change. If they change from communist to democracy, maybe one day I would go back there. MG: To live or just to visit? KE: To live [laughs]. MG: What are you most proud of? KE: Here or there? MG: Here, or there – yeah? KE: Proud of – I don’t know what I’m proud? I’m proud that I am Karen ethnic group (Karen people), that I came here, I have learned English and the other language (even I can speak some Spanish right now because in our company they speak only Spanish); that is why I am very happy I learn their other language and I can speak four language right now – that’s why I’m proud of myself. MG: Okay. What are your dreams for the future – for yourself or your children? KE: Okay, so in the future my dreams are maybe one day (that I told you) I would like to go back to my country (if the country change everything). I would like to help the people who need help (like orphan children) – do you know what I am saying “orphan” – that is the people they don’t have parents. MG: Right. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 11 KE: I would like to help them if I have money, if I have my business or my own jobs; if I have incomes, a lot of income, maybe one day I would go back and help them for the education for the health to get the hospital or the clinic for them, or the school for them. Because it is really hard – there are many people over there in our Karen state (our Karen people) they don’t have receive any education, any health; it’s really hard over there. Because in our place there are many malarias disease – do you know that malaria? Yeah. There are many people die every years over there because we don’t have not enough the medicine, we don’t have equipment to check the disease, to check up everything for the health – that’s why they have to give their lives a lot every years over there. [31:15] MG: Would you like to own your own business some day? KE: I think, yeah; I think so [laughs], yes. MG: What kind of business. KE: Just for my dream, yeah; because I don’t have any – I don’t have my graduate like a high education – I cannot do the business, like the big business. I just that I can do just only the agriculture and poultry – do you know poultry? MG: Chickens. KE: Chicken – oh, yeah poultry like the chicken, or what about the pig farm to grow the chicken, pig, goat, cow or something like that, right? With the agriculture – plant the food, the vegetable, the fruit in our place; that’s why I like to work with like that. MG: Have you ever thought about going back to school? KE: Yes, because I don’t have a opportunity, I don’t have a chance right now because I borrow my house here, I have to go to work. If I go to school, who is going to pay for my payments here, right? It’s really hard to live here. I would like to go to school to get a degree or something like that, but it’s really hard for me here. It’s a balance make it which way I can do, that’s why I choose the – I have to work to live here. MG: Okay. You said you’re Buddhist – has your religious practices changed at all since you came to the U.S.? KE: Changed, like what? MG: Is there any like changes you’ve had to make practice wise? Is it hard to be that here, in Cache Valley? KE: No, that’s not hard for me, but it depends on the people. Some of the people, if they like religious, if they don’t have their temple or monastery (we call it monastery in the Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 12 Buddhist), in the Christian they call it the church – it is really hard for them to live because they love their religion, right? It is for me: I love my religion also, because it is always in my mind. And Buddhists, they just teach the people if you are the human, you are the human: if you do the good thing, you will get the good thing; if you do the bad thing, you will get the bad thing. In America I like, I really like – that’s why I’m [??]: if you broke the law, you have to go to jail, right? Your mother, your father, your brother cannot help you; nobody can help you – even the God cannot help you. That’s why my religion said if you do the bad thing, you will receive the bad; if you do the good thing, you will receive the good. That’s why I live here, it is easy for me – it’s not really hard. I can communicate with every people, every religion. That is why we are the human being. We have to love each other. We need to help each other. If we see the people who [??], we have to help that people: even the black, yellow, white, or whatever. We don’t have any discrimination – it’s not good; we need to help each other. That’s why I’m here, I like America. [35:28] MG: Is there a monastery here, in Cache Valley? KE: No, in Salt Lake City: Thai monastery is over there. MG: Do you get to go down there? KE: I’ve never been there. I live here almost eight year, I never been there. Just only in my mind – if I think the good thing, if I do the good thing, if I speak the good thing, I am the good people. If I do the bad thing (like to do whatever the people don’t like) – even I go to the monastery or the church, right – every week you go to the church, you go to the monastery – if your mind is no good, you are not good people. You go to the church, you pray, you go the other where you do the bad thing – that is not fair. I live in my house, I just pray in my house for my family, for the people around all the world. That’s why I believe. I never been to the monastery; never. MG: Would you like to go there some time? KE: Some time, yes – because we are different language; we don’t know how do they speak, how do they pray, right? [Laughs] If they pray, we don’t want to stand like something is not fair for me, it is not good for me. But for the religion, they pray every religion they pray for the good people for around the world: they ask them to do the good thing, right? But if I go to Thai monastery, the monks (the Thai monks) – they pray in a Thai language; if I don’t understand, how can I feel the good thing, right? It’s really good here, but that’s what I’m saying; I don’t understand they pray, because it in Thai language. I know they are Buddhist, I am Buddhist – I respect them, I like them, but I never been there. I don’t understand how they pray in their language; it’s different with my language. Yeah, so something like that. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 13 MG: Okay. I think I’m done with my questions. Is it okay if they ask you questions if they have any? KE: Sure, sure. MG: You look like you have a question. [38:17] WV: I’m just trying to think. I guess what I would ask is, you know, based on just your experience and what you’ve been through (both in Burma and Thailand and here), is there anything that you wish you could help other people outside of your community understand? Does that make sense? Is there something that you would like if you could, you know, tell other strangers like us (who maybe don’t know), is there anything that you would like us to understand? KE: To help the Karen people? WV: Either way: here or over there? KE: Oh okay, yes; I have a lot of things to let you know. I am very happy today to visit with you, because you are from the university (US University), maybe you have a lot of experience, you have a lot of education (high education) – I think you can help my people a lot (more than me). Because maybe one day that I am talking about for awhile when I go back there I would like to connect with you. And maybe one day if you go to Thailand, go to visit or go do whatever, or go to work over there I just want to connect with you and to help our people over there to build a school, to build a clinic: just only two things that I’m really need. And when I live here, in Cache County (Cache Valley), I just want to let you know because our refugee from Burma (our Karen refugees here), we are almost 200 people (before there were over 200, but right now they moved the other state some). And we have a lot of children here that go to school; sometime they have a difficulty life here: their mom and dad cannot speak any English because their mom or their dad go to work. And that what I am saying sometime they have from the school, they have school conference, parent conference (or whatever, something like that), or the other things is really hard for them sometime. That’s why from the university can help them some way (like to read the letter, if they have time to apply for Medicaid, to apply for food stamp), because they have a better chance. In U.S. I know we have equality rights – every people, we have equality right – because our refugee don’t know anything (mostly) they don’t know anything about it, how to apply that: where we have to go to apply for this; that’s why they need to know. I say, “If you have some day you want to go to do this, you can go this building or that department,” or if you can like a direction for them it will be better. For example, if you print the paper like this – if you lose your social security card you can go apply this place; Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 14 if you need driver license you can go apply this department, this place – something like that. You can contact if you want to do whatever (how can I say?). But we have a lot of opportunity here, for the people. If you want to go to school: agriculture school or nursing school – mostly they don’t know anything about it, which program better (which one is better). If you mostly here we have high school student, they already graduate and they will continue their higher education (go to college) – mostly they don’t how to apply for the scholarship, the grant or something to go for their school. If you can have the children like that will be better for them. [43:39] BH: I have a question – KE: Yes? BH: So I know right now we’re downstairs, but upstairs I saw there’s a lot of stuff on a wall – KE: Uh-huh? BH: Of like a flag – KE: Uh-huh? BH: And I saw a picture that I think – KE: Me. BH: Is of you – is it of you in a uniform? KE: The soldier uniform? BH: The soldier? KE: Oh no, that’s my uncle. BH: That’s your uncle? KE: Yes, that’s not me [laughs]. BH: So I guess I’m just curious about that photo? KE: For what? BH: Is your uncle here? Is he in – Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kyaw Eh Page 15 KE: No, he’s in Burma. BH: In Burma? KE: Yes. He is not here. I just respect him, because right now he is a soldier. BH: Um-hmm? KE: Karen soldier – fight for democracy, fight for our Karen to have a equality rights. He fight for everybody to have equality chance, equality rights, to have like a democracy, to get democracy in Burma. He doesn’t want to come here; he told me that he will die there – he will fight for freedom, for the equality rights. That’s why I brang his picture here and just put it and remember him. I miss him. He’s a really good because he suggests me always whenever I call him, he suggests me, “When you go there you have to do the good thing, you have to love your friend, you have to help your friend. If you have some that are like education, or if you have experience better than your friend, you need to help your friend who need help.” That’s about him. BH: Thank you. KE: You are welcome. Anything else? [45:56] MG: Is there anything else you’d like to tell us that we haven’t asked you. KE: No, [laughs] I have no idea. If you have a question, I can answer you; if you have a question. MG: I think we’re good; thank you. KE: You are welcome. MG: For meeting with us. KE: Yes. WV: Thank you. BH: Thank you. KE: I’m also a pleasure, I’m very happy to be able to converse with you. MG: Okay. [End recording – 46:28]
Kyaw Eh
Van de Water, 1988
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 63
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67613
158736 Bytes
eng
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 62
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67612
44620060 Bytes
Interview transcript with Afeworki Woldemichael in Logan, Utah, 2015 May 17
Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Ethiopia; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Eritrea-- Food; Afeworki Woldemichael-- Interviews
Afeworki Woldemichael talks about his family and home in Eritrea. He discusses his time in a refugee camp in Ethiopia, where he met his wife and had two children, his journey to the United States, living in Connecticut, Idaho, and Utah. He discusses his adjustments to life in the United States, and expresses hopes to improve his English to be better able to communicate with the people of Logan. He talks about what the future of his family will be like when his wife and children come join him.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Afeworki Woldemichael Present: Afeworki Woldemichael, Heidi Williams, Magen Olsen, Berhane Debesai Abraha, Hilary Warner-Evans Place of Interview: Mr. Woldemichael's apartment in Logan, Utah Date of Interview: 17 May 2015 Language(s): Tigrinya; English Interpretation: Berhane Debesai Abraha: Live translator Interviewer: Hilary Warner-Evans Recordist: Magen Olsen Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe Transcribed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 21, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 25, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Afeworki Woldemichael talks about his family and home in Eritrea. He discusses his time in a refugee camp in Ethiopia, where he met his wife and had two children, his journey to the United States, living in Connecticut, Idaho, and Utah. He discusses his adjustments to life in the United States, and expresses hopes to improve his English to be better able to communicate with the people of Logan. He talks about what the future of his family will be like when his wife and children come join him. Reference: HWE= Hilary Warner-Evans (Interviewer) HWEI= Hilary Warner-Evans' words being interpreted by translator AW= Afeworki Woldemichael (Interviewee) AWI= Afeworki Woldemichael's words being interpreted by translator BDA= Berhane Debesai Abraha HW= Heidi Williams NOTE: The interview was conducted with the assistance of a live translator, Berhane Debesai Abraha. The interpreter arrived about ten minutes later than the interviewer, photographer, and recordist but is present from the beginning of the transcript. False starts, pauses, or transitions in Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 2 dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] [Checking microphone. Indistinguishable talk from HWE, BDA, and AW. AW tapping mic.] HWE: Okay. It's May 17th 2015. This is Hilary Warner-Evans interviewing Afeworki Woldemichael, a member of the Eritrean community here in Logan, Utah. And we're at his apartment in Logan. Also present is Berhane Debesai Abraha, who is translating, from Tigrinya and Magen Olsen, who is doing the recording, and Heidi Williams, doing photography. So, can you give your full name again and your birth year? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] AW: Okay. May 24, is birthday next Monday [laughs] BDA: [quietly] Sunday. AW: Yeah, my–. Yeah, next Sunday. Yeah. AWI: His birthday is May 24th [unclear] AW: Yeah. HW: [to BDA] And yours is twentieth. BDA: Mm-hm AW: May 24. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: 1979 AWI: Yeah. May 24th 1979. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Afeworki Woldemichael. HWE: And what languages do you speak? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 3 AW: Tigrinya. HWE: Can you tell me about your family? AW: Yeah. HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Okay. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to Interviewee.] AW: Okay First, my brother, Nguse Gebreyohannes [??]. Gebreyohannes. And the last name, Woldemichael. Woldemichael. By Tigrinya, Woldemichael. By English, Woldemichael. [laughs] [02:16] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Yeah, his oldest brother is Nguse Woldemichael, but the way we write it is different so we– [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Gebreyohannes. AWI: Nguse Gebreyohannes Woldemichael. Okay. AW: Second– My mother born ten people. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. HWE: Wow. AWI: His mother have ten children. AW: And we have seven people. And three people is died. AWI: He's got seven siblings and three of his siblings, they died. Deceased. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 4 AW: Two brothers in the independence. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: One of his brothers, he died when we're struggling for independence. That means before 1991 against Ethiopia, the war. And the other brother died when we were defending our country in the second war between 1997 to 2001. And his eldest brother he died from too much alcoholism. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] [04:12] AWI: Do you guys need the names of all his siblings? HWE: [hesitates] Probably not, but– HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya] HWE: –I don't know. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: Nine boys and one girl. [laughs] AWI: He got eight brothers and one sister including him as one of the ten. So now he got six brothers and one sister. AW: Yeah. HWEI: Five brothers? AW: Six brothers. One– HWEI: One sister. AW: One sister. HWEI: Or five brothers. [Asking question in Tigrinya] AW: Yeah. [laughs] [Speaking in Tigrinya] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 5 AWI: He has five brothers and one sister. Including him there are seven surviving siblings. HWE: And you have a wife too, right? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yes. HWE: Yeah. Do you have any children? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. Two boys. HWE: And are they back in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: They are in the Ethiopian refugee camp. HWE: Okay. How old are your children? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: One, four years. And the other, [speaks in Tigrinya.] AWI: His oldest is four years and his youngest, he will be two in September. [06:04] HWE: What ethnic or religious community do you consider yourself to be a part of? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Orthodox. HWEI: Eritrean Orthodox mission? AW: Yeah. AWI: He is a follower of the Eritrean Orthodox church. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 6 HWE: And you are a follower of the church here in Logan, right? Or, I mean, not Logan but in Utah. HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]. AW: Yeah. HWE: Can you tell me about your birth county? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: My country very good, has mountains. All the mountains. Utah, the same in Utah. [laughs] Good country. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: He says, Eritrea is beautiful. It has so many mountains just like Utah. It has highlands and lowlands. It has two seasons. HWE: And are you– You're from the highland part? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He is from the lowlands. HWE: Oh, okay. So, what did your family do for work? Were they a farming family? [8:07] HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: They were irrigation farmers. HWE: Okay. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 7 AWI: Yeah, they are irrigation farmers. AW: Yes. HWE: What kinds of crops did they grow? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya] AWI: Corn, Sorghum. Do you guys know Sorghum? It grows like corn but there's grains on the top. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya]. AWI: And Dagusa. AW: [laughs] AWI: I told you, remember, it's used for local drinks. They raise it, but– [speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: He doesn't know how to call it in English, but we just call it Dagusa and we use it for drinks, local drinks. And, is it called sesame? It's a grain. They use it for oil? Sesame. HWE: Yeah, sesame. AWI: Yeah, sesame. HWE: How long did you live in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: All day. [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: All my life until I moved to the Ethiopian refugee camp. HWE: How old were you when you went to the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 8 AWI: He was twenty-seven going to twenty-eight years. HWE: Why did you leave Eritrea? [10:00] HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: There was no job and no job opportunities so I just wanted to improve my life and I moved for a another place. HWE: And what was the experience like of leaving? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: His home town is near the border of Eritrea and Ethiopia and it was a war. Eritrea and Ethiopia, they are in kind of semi-war yet. And where he raised, the area he was raised, he knows everything, where to go, which to go and he knows which front line, which lines are Ethiopian front lines. So it's easy for him. He can go daytime or nighttime because he knows who is where so it was not a big deal for him to cross the border. [12:00] HWE: So when you crossed the border, you went to Ethiopia. And were you trying to go anywhere– What was your final destination you were attempting to go to? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]. AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, when he leaving his home town in Eritrea, he got two options. His first option was to stay in the refugee camp and to work to America and other countries, maybe Europe, maybe Australia. If that option was not possible, his second option was to go to Sudan, Libya, cross the mediterranean and to go to Europe. HWE: Okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AWI: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 9 [BDA's phone rings and he turns it off.] [14:00] AWI: He said, life was tough in the refugee camp because they didn't give them anything. At first, they were giving them only fifteen kilos of wheat. AW: Per month. AWI: Per month. Sometimes you don't have money to grind them and make them into bread or something. Sometimes he just boiled them, put salt on it, and just eat it. But after that, some of them, they get money, borrow it from friends and some of them they just get– Or they have to work for themselves in that area, farming, whatever they can. HWE: And did you end up working while you were there? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, in the surrounding areas near the refugee camp they were working physical work, laborers, sometimes on the grain harvest. In seasons they work as weeders because we have to weed the fields by our hand. HWE: And, so with the money you earned by working eventually could you buy more food? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [16:08] AWI: So at first they were giving them only 15 kilos of wheat and a liter and a half of oil so they could not do anything with it. So they work and they earn money and they have to buy tomatoes, onions, and other stuff to make their own soup. But starting 2009 they started giving them around 800 milligrams of sugar, might be around two pounds of sugar, per month. And some times they were giving them some kind of soup. It's made up of wheat or something like that. So the only thing they have to do is work and earn money and make their own food. HWE: What kind of medical care was available at the camp? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 10 HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: The medical care, that was okay. But the problem was the medical care was provided by IRC. I think it's the International Refugee Commission. But all the doctors are Ethiopians and they speak Amharic. And they just wanted to speak Amharic. They don't want to talk in Tigrinya. And they don't know Tigrinya. But relatively they are okay and if you can communicate with them you get good medical care. [18:04] HWE: So was your wife with you in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Okay, his wife is Ethiopian. He met her. She was his friend, or girlfriend. So they were living together when he got his process finished and he already got his visa. They make it official. They get married. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: On September 20th, 2012 they make it official because he was coming here. If he has to claim her as a girlfriend that doesn't work. He has to marry her. But they met in Ethiopia in 2010 and they were staying together. HWE: So when you were in the camp you were living with your wife for most of that time? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [19:48] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 11 HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: He met his wife in the Ethiopian villages because he was going over there to work. Then when they get pregnant, when she had a baby, he brought her over to the refugee camp because the baby is his. The baby is Eritrean even though he was born in Ethiopia. So he brought her to the camp and the baby has to register as a refugee like him. Then he convinced her, hey, better stay with me. If I get a chance to go abroad then I'm going to claim you as my wife. Then she stayed with him. But first, until she got her first baby, she was living with her parents and he was living in the camp but he was working outside the camp. And at that time he saved some money and he bought a carriage, something you pull with the horse. [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: But sometimes they pull it with a donkey. So he was working with it transporting stuffs over there. HWE: And can you describe your living conditions in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [coughs] Sorry, I have to drink water. [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [21:51] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, at first life was so hard. Because of all the people over there. They speak the same language because they are on the border with Eritrea, but all cultures and the way we think is different. And we are enemies. We are at war. So at first we don't want to talk to them. They don't trust us. We don't trust them. But we [??] them. We work with them. We start trading with them, buying stuff from them. And they buy stuff from the refugees. And then we start to just become kind of one people. Nobody cares for the refugees and that. But at first it was hard. HWE: And were you living with anyone else when you were in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] [23:45] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 12 AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [26:05] AWI: Yeah, at first when he was crossing into Ethiopia in 2005, you know, when the refugees, when they, you go in the office, they call, they give you some paper work. They arrange to interview you and they give you some coin to get the wheat and the oil. But they just say, hey, you can get wheat and oil with this one but you are on your own so he doesn't have anything. He doesn't know anyone in the camp. So there was a tea shop over there and the tea shop was just made up of tin but they sell teas. So he was sitting over there and some of the refugees who came before him, maybe a year or so, they saw him and they told him, “Oh, you look like you're new. Where do you live.” And he said, “I just arrived here. They drop me here by a car. I have no where to go.” And they told me, “Okay, you can live with us.” And he lived with them for two years. Then after that he started working in the surrounding areas and he started saving some money and over there you just build your own home. Nobody owns the land. It just belongs to the refugee camp. So there were some people, they were going to Israel in the Middle East. So they just sold their home to him and he bought that home and he started living by himself. And in 2008 the refugee commission from the United States, they started registering to come to the United States and they got a group case. And they were waiting for their group case and meanwhile he met with his wife. They got a child. Then she moved back with him. Until he comes here, he was living with his wife. And he was talking about his two friends, the ones who accepted him first. One of them, he came to Denver but for some reason he deceased. And the other one, he didn't get to come to America. They rejected his case. I don't know why but he's in Germany. [28:07] HWE: How did you celebrate holidays when you were in the camp, or did you celebrate them at all? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, it depends on your attitude and on your brain. If you got things you put it first, food and other stuff. If you don't have anything, just buy vegetables because they are the cheapest over there. Just, you have to do what you have to do. HWE: And did you get together with other people to celebrate at all? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 13 HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [30:14] AWI: Yeah, he said, we were refugees. Most of the time we lived close to each other, we hung out together, we discussed about what we have to do because we don't want to live on the welfare of the refugee camp. We want to earn money and improve our life. So during holidays we always shared what we got. Some people have money. Some of them they don't have. So if your neighbors or other people you know, if you know they don't have anything and if you know they are bachelors or singles, you just invite them, “Hey, come tomorrow. I'm going to make food or buy a sheep or a chicken, whatever you've got, or meat.” If they are families, because families they want to spend the holiday together, you just share what you've got with them. You tell them, “Hey, tomorrow is a holiday, I know you guys don't have anything. Here's this thing and celebrate the holiday.” But you share whatever you got. It can be meat. It can be food. It can be vegetables. Whatever. HWE: Did you do anything else besides just eat together? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] [32:00] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: He's saying, we just get together. We make coffee. If they've got a woman most of the time the woman do coffee. If they don't have a woman, they just make it themselves. And we discuss about their cultures because some people they were from the highlands, some people from the western lowlands, some people from the eastern lowlands, that means from the coast of the Red Sea. And we discuss about the way they live in their areas, how they live, how they celebrate things, their culture and they just communicate and discuss about cultures and things. And I asked him, do you guys dance, he said, how are we going to dance? [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: They don't have record or a CD player or something to play the song, so you don't dance without the music. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 14 HWE: There were no musicians? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: There were musicians. They were funded by the IRC. Or because they were by the IRC. But they perform only on the holidays assigned by the IRC. It can be a Women's Day, a Refugees' Day, Eritrean Independence Day. But they don't celebrate all holidays. HWE: What kinds of instruments did they play? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [34:03] AWI: They played guitar, organ, but– AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya] AWI: –we got our own equipment. We call it Krar. It's kind of guitar. But there was nobody that could play saxophone. Because they had the instrument, but there is no person who can play it. HWE: And was the way you celebrated holidays in the camp, was that similar to how you celebrated them in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Yeah. HWE: Did you get a sense at all of how Ethiopia felt about having all of the refugees in their country? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 15 [37:15] AWI: Yeah, at first it was hard and they don't even like us, because they were even physically attacking us, because there were some people who lost their teeth. There was a guy who was hit by an ax. And they are refugees. The only thing they can prepare their food is by firewood. And there were some people who went for the fire wood and the locals they were beating them. They were telling them, “This is our wood, what the heck are you doing with it?” They're all women. They got their wood and the locals, they just put fire on the wood. They are not taking it. They just put fire on it, but after some time, the government, the Ethiopian government. It was governing all the locals. It was telling them, “Hey, these guys are refugees in our country. We have to help them. We are the same people. We've got some political problems.” But some of them even, they were born in Ethiopia but after the war broke, they were deported back to Eritrea because they were born in Ethiopia, by blood they are Eritrean. They were deported. But the government tried to discuss with the locals. And with the refugees too. So they start to get off it and they were telling them they can get benefit because they accept the refugees, they can have political benefit from it. And there was some refugees' organization from the Netherlands. They came to the camp and they were teaching the refugees how to improve their life, how to breed chickens, how to make beans because it was forest, and when they were teaching the refugees, they were also teaching the locals together. So the locals think, oh, so if we keep the refugees, we can get a lot of benefit. And they start trading with them finally. Their difference doesn't exist and they start living together. But first they were all hostile and they don't want them to be in that area. [39:08] HWE: How did you learn about the US refugee program? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [high pitched feedback noise 40:18] [40:59] AWI: At first, when he was living in Eritrea, he doesn't have any detailed knowledge of the refugee case for him to come to America. His main reason to go to Ethiopia was to go to Israel because he can cross through Sudan, but the border is so tough he cannot cross the Sudan. But since he lives by the border of Ethiopia he just crossed to Ethiopia. His idea was to go to Sudan, then Egypt, to Israel. But he was in Ethiopia and he was working on something, he was calling someone, things like that. And there were a lot of people going to Israel. To go to Israel from Ethiopia, you have to go to Sudan first, then cross all this desert. You have to go to North of Egypt, cross the Sinai peninsula, then you go to Israel. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 16 And it costs a lot of money. And so you have to get money from your parents if they've got some. Or you need someone or some relative in the United States or Europe because parts of it take a lot of money. And there are a lot of smugglers in the border between Israel and Egypt. But when these people who go to Israel, they get together over there and they start petitioning to the refugee commission for the United Nations. They tell them, “We're Eritreans. We've got a lot of political problems. We've got a lot of refugees in Ethiopia. You guys are not doing anything.” Then after that it is the UNHCR. I think it is a refugee commission. They collaborated with the United States and they started giving them group case and things like that. And they started immigrating to America. [42:43] HWE: Can you tell me about how you got to the US? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [laughs] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. AWI: When he was in the refugee camp, when they are approving him to go to the United States they have to wait for a flight because they send you when they have empty flights coming back from Ethiopia. His first flight was on January 15th, 2013. And they cancelled it. And the second flight was March 5, 2013. They also cancelled it. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya] [high pitched feedback noise 44:09] AWI: Then there was another flight scheduled for him on April 4th, 2013. So from the refugee camp he moved to Addis Ababa because the airport is in Addis Ababa, the capital of Ethiopia. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: And they cancelled it again. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 17 AWI: Then when you come to the United States you have to do medical check up for TB and other vaccinations. It works only for six months. Because they cancelled his schedule three times, his medical thing was expired. He has to retake it in Addis Ababa. [high pitched feedback noise 44:52 to 44:56] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: After he get his medical, after 44 days, on June 18th, they told him, “Hey there is a flight. You're going to the United States on July 1st.” [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Then he came to the United States on July the 1st. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: So when he land, he went outside of the Bole airport where he take a flight to Egypt. They got a transit. From Egypt they flew directly to New York. From New York they took him by a bus to New Haven, Connecticut and he stayed there for five months. [46:13] HWE: Were there other refugees on the flight with you? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [high pitched feedback noise 46:26] AWI: There were two Eritreans. There were Sudanese and Somalis too. HWE: What was it like living in New Haven? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: At first, the air is cold in Connecticut. He was raised in the lowlands of Eritrea and it's too hot. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Most of the time where he was raised, it was forty, forty-two, sometimes forty-five Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 18 degrees centigrade. [high pitched feedback noise begins 47:43] That means 100 degrees Fahrenheit. So New Haven was so cold for him, so as soon as he arrived, when he got his papers, he started working with a landscaping company his second month because he came here to improve his life. [end noise 48:01] Then from his arrival after five months it gets too cold because he came in July. In December it gets too cold, then he moved to Idaho. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [high pitched feedback noise 48:35 to 48:37] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Mm-hmm. AWI: So in Idaho he was working two jobs. One of them was growing with a potato company and another one was with a cheese company. HWE: And before you started work in the US, did you get any help from the government or any religious organizations? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [50:00] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 19 AW: Yeah. AWI: They were taking food stamps from the workforce of that state, that means Connecticut. AW: [Speaking Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: And five months they paid him his rent. I think it's some government organization, he can't remember their name but something to do with immigration. [high pitched feedback noise 50:24 to 50:28] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: Immigration, immigrants. AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He's saying they are everywhere in every state. When you are a refugee they just help you. They give you money and they help you. It was some kind of immigration services. HWE: And is there any way that your first few months in the US could've [high pitched feedback noise 51:04] been improved? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [noise ends 52:12] [52:20] AWI: Yeah. I don't know if they can do more, but they were giving us, they were paying for the rent. And for the first two months, they give us 200 dollar for food stamp each month, but after that they cut by 11 dollars so they were giving everyone in the whole United States only 189. And when he moved to Idaho, they helped him with his rent for two months and they're giving him food stamp for six months and after those they told him, “Hey come to the work force for some interviews and we'll help you with additional food stamps” but he told them, “Hey, I'm working and I can support myself. I don't need any more food stamps” and [high pitched feedback noise 53:05] he didn't show up in the interview. HWE: And was– So you went from New Haven to Idaho and was it any warmer in Idaho than it had been in New Haven? [laughs] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 20 HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] [54:04] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, he was talking to his friend in Idaho. He told them, “Hey, this area's too cold. I cannot do it here.” His friend told him, “Okay, it's cold here but let's try it over here. Come over here.” And he came to Idaho. When he was coming there was a lot of snow coming down. And it was even cold even in the airport, [end noise 55:05] so he told the security, “Hey, I'm staying inside. I'm not leaving until my friends come back, show up.” Because his friends, [high pitched feedback noise at 55:09] they were not in the airport at the time he was landing. So he waited inside the airport to wait for his ride but it was too cold even in the airport. Then he started work then. Utah and Idaho, they are kind of the same in weather but they are different than Connecticut. Connecticut is close to Canada and close to the sea, the ocean, and it is colder than Idaho. BDA: [to HWE] So what do you think? You came from the west coast– east coast. [laughs] HWE: Me? About the weather? BDA: Oh sorry. The interview is about him not about you. [laughs] HWE: [laughs] AW: [laughs] HWE: How long have you lived in Cache Valley? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [56:04] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He's going on his tenth month. Last month, on the 13th , it was his ninth month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 21 HWE: And did you go straight here from Idaho? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Yeah. HWE: And why did you decide to come here after Idaho? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, in Idaho he was working two jobs, almost 20 hours a day. He was sleeping just three hours a day. And they were paying him only nine dollars per hour. So he was asking friends for a better job with better payment. So came here. They work only between 9 to 10 hours in Hyram. And he gets paid 13.75 an hour. The job is hard, but I got time to rest. That's why he moved to Logan. [58:22] HWE: And you work at JBS? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. HWE: Okay. What has it been like living in Logan? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, I like Logan. It's safe place. I don't have to worry about my security. And I work. I support my relatives. I support my children and his wife. He's processing their visa. I hope they will come soon. And most of the time when you move from one state to another state you have to think about yourself and discuss with yourself, why are you moving? So I told Logan had a better lifestyle, lifestyle than there was in Idaho, better pay. So, so far, I cannot complain. Logan is a good place and I hope I will improve my life better than I have now. [60:31] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 22 HWE: Do you feel included in the community here? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah. Until now, I didn't encounter anything bad, not only in Logan but in the whole United States. Sometimes, due to the language barrier, there might be some conflicts but I'm sure it's because we don't speak English and they don't speak Tigrinya. But if I can speak English and explain my culture and my needs, I hope I feel included. HWE: What do you think could be done to make you feel more at home here? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] End part 1 of 2: 62:06 Begin part 2 of 2: [00:01] [high pitched feedback noise from beginning to end] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, I think he needs to do more to study English and if he studied English, if he can communicate with the locals, he will tell them how we live our [??] things like that. And he learns the culture of the locals if they can communicate. If he can communicate with the other people, just respect each other and live including each other, life will be easier. But if we don't communicate with them, if we don't know the language, it will be hard. But the only thing we have to do is learn English and explain ourselves. HWE: Okay. How is your home here different than the one you had in Eritrea. HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: He was living in a house but now he's living in an apartment. HWE: [laughs] AW: [laughs] HWEI: [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 23 AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] [02:20] AWI: There is a lot of difference. The utensils here and back home are different. Back home we use firewood to cook our food and other stuff, but here we use gas stoves. And for ready to eat things we use a microwave here, but over there, nobody knows what a microwave is. HWE: Can you tell me about your experiences with your landlord? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: We don't even know who's owner of this apartment. They heard lives in Texas, and some other company, they lease all the apartments. They got a drop box downstairs. Every month, they write the money order and they just drop it. And they don't know who takes the money or who owns these apartments. [03:58] HWE: So what happens when you have a problem like if your fridge breaks or something goes wrong? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: So all of the refrigerators, they have a contact number, so if something goes wrong, you just call that contact number and they deal with it. HWE: Oh, okay. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: But so far they don't have any problems so they never use that number. HWE: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you and other Eritreans here? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 24 AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He says, here in Logan, those who can speak English, they are so few. But I hope we can learn English and discuss with the Logan community how they go, their political system, the way they live, their culture, and more else. And I hope we can communicate with them. But now there are only a few people who can talk to them. [06:14] HWE: If you could, would you go back to your home country? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He cannot go. HWE: But if you were able to, would you want to? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: I don't think we are going back home but if the government or the system is changed over there, if they can allow all the refugees to come back to Eritrea, if he becomes a citizen, I might go for a visit, but I don't think I will go back. HWE: What are you most proud of? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [08:00] AWI: I'm happy because I'm healthy and I can work and support myself and my families. And, second, although I know only few English, I am proud I can– I will try to make friends and communicate with other people. HWE: What are your dreams for the future? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 25 AWI: This time I cannot tell you about my dreams because I am working on bringing my family, my wife and children, so when she comes here, we will discuss about our future dreams with my family, my wife and my children. And after, if she comes here, we'll both dream together, but if I dream something now and she dreams another dream, it'll be two dreams and one family. So when she shows up here, we can discuss about myself, about our future. We will buy a house and we'll improve our future life and future life of our children. HWE: Okay. I think that's all. Do you guys have anything you want to ask? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [09:53] AW: Okay. [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, I appreciate you on behalf of myself and the other people in Logan or Utah. Because you guys are working to get our culture and to take it to the people of Logan and other people. So I appreciate what you guys are doing. HWE: Thank you. AW: You're welcome. HWE: I hope we'll be able to do that correctly. Do you have anything else that you want to add? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: I don't have any other things to add, but I hope in our, in my future interview, things like this or other stuff, I hope I will do it myself without a translator. I think I want to talk to any person, man, woman, it doesn't matter, but I just want to do it myself without a translator. HWE: Okay. So, thanks for agreeing to meet with us. And we have a release form to sign that has to do with putting the interview and the photos in the archives being used for an online presentation. HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.] [12:07] AW: Okay. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 26 BDA: Does he need to write in English, or? HWE: No, you can write in whatever language you want. HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] BDA: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] End part 2 of 2: [12:29]
Afeworki Woldemichael, 1979-;
Williams, Heidi, 1989-;
Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;
Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994;
Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;
application/pdf;
162008 Bytes
tir; eng;
Western Lowland Eritrea; Ethiopia; Egypt; New York, NY; New Haven, CT; Idaho;
Kahsay Gebremedhin interview transcript, May 23, 2015
Eritrea; Refugees; Ethiopia; Cache Valley (Utah); Africa; Farming; Holiday celebrations;
Interview conducted with Kahsay Gebremedhin by Magen Olsen on May 23, 2015. Translated by Berhane Debesai. Discussion on Eritrea farming practices, Ethiopian refugee camps, etc.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Present: Magen Olsen, Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin, Berhane, Hilary Warner- Evans, Heidi Williams Place of Interview: Date of Interview: May 23, 2015 Language(s): Tigrinya Translation: Interviewer: Magen Olsen Interpreter: Berhane Recordist: Heidi Williams Photographer: Hilary Warner-Evans Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 26, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Brief Description of Contents: Mr. Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin talks about his life in Eritrea, his family, and escaping to Ethiopia as a refugee. He talks about his time spent at Shimelba refugee camp in Ethiopia, and the process he followed to come to the United States as a refugee. He discusses life in America, his current job and his dream to have a farm. Reference: MO = Magen Olsen MOI = Magen Olsen’s words interpreted by translator KG = Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin KGI = Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin’s words interpreted by translator NOTE: [You will have to modify this as appropriate—whether using CommGap or in-person interpreter.] The interview was conducted with CommGap Interpretive Services; the interpreter joined the interview via a cell phone. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 2 [Part 1 of 2 – 00:01] MO: Alright; we are here, it is – of course we are here – it is Saturday [laughing], ten o’clock in the morning, May 23rd, 2015. It’s raining today for about the 100th day – ??: In a row. MO: [Laughing] It seems like it’s been rainy every, single day. We are here with Kahsaoy, right? KG: Yes. MO: Who is a refugee from Eritrea; translating for him is Berhane. We have Hilary Warner- Evans on the photography end of things, and Heidi Williams is recording and taking some notes. And we’re going to go ahead and start. So how are you doing today? KG: Good. MO: Good, good. Thanks for meeting with us, and for being willing to talk with us and share some things about your experiences as a refugee, living in the United States. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: Thank you. MO: So we’ll start with the first question is what is your full name and birth year? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: His name is Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin; he was born in 1971. MO: Okay. What languages do you speak? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: Tigrinya. MO: That’s it? KGI: He speaks Tigrinya. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 3 KG: Yes. MO: Perfect. And tell me about your family? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Okay. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I have three children here, in America, and I got five more back in Eritrea. I have one brother here, in America, and I have six siblings back home. MO: So do they – your family members – they all live here (who are in America)? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, yeah. KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, three of them they are here (the youngest ones) – KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: But he got five more in Africa, two of them are in the Ethiopia refugee camp – the rest three are in Eritrea. [03:28] MO: So that’s got to be hard, being all over? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, it’s still hard because people are everywhere; even it’s hard for me – some of them, they are in the refugee camp, there is nothing over there – I have to send them money to support family there. It’s kind of hard. MO: What religion are you? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 4 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He is Eritrean Orthodox Church. MO: Okay, good. Can you tell me a bit about Eritrea, where you’re from? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Eritrea is a good place to live, but there is some problem – [speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah; he says it’s harder to [??] stuff it has to do with farming, and we don’t have a lot and we don’t know anything about the life in the cities. So generally, the economy [??] MO: Did you grow up on a farm then? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, they are all from – KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Farmer. MO: What did you grow – animals, grain? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [06:20] KGI: We raise grains – we don’t have any technology, we plow the field by oxes; and when it comes to harvesting season, we harvest it manually and with the help of animals. And we also have animal harvest[??]. MO: Okay. So did you live in the – Berhane has talked about highlands and lowlands – did you live in the highlands or the lowlands? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 5 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He was living in the lowlands. MO: Cool. How long did you live there? So how long have you been in the U.S., I guess? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He has been in American almost a year and eight months. MO: Good. KG: 2013. KGI: He came here on 2013. MO: Cool. Why did you leave Eritrea? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I was in the National Service [??] army, and I have a lot of children – nobody supporting them behind me, and he is not getting anything. Finally he get frustrated and left Eritrea with the refugee camp in Ethiopia. MO: And when did you do that? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: Refugee – 2007. KGI: 2007. KG: Yeah. MO: So six years in Ethiopia? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 6 KGI: Yeah, six years and some couple of months. KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, he went there on July 15, 2007 – [speaking in Tigrinya to the interviewee] [09:20] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] 2013 – KGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] And he came here on September 2013. KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: On the 18th of September, 2013. So, do your calc – [Laughter] MO: I will once – KGI: It’s easier to do once – MO: Yeah, if you’re already there – [Laughing] So you’re in science, and we’re all in [laughs] folklore. KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, six years two months and three days. MO: Perfect. KGI: [??] [Laughter] MO: Two months, three days. So what was the experience like in leaving? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 7 KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, I don’t have any problem because I was born there, I know the whole land and we got farms in between. There was army soldiers in the trench, but sometimes they just don’t care because we go back and forth for our animals and farms; and he went to his brother and didn’t get any problem – he just crossed. MO: It’s hard for other people then, right (usually)? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: For me it was easy because I was raised in the rural areas, and we got animals so we cross all over the place (because our animals for food and water to the animals). But for some people who came from the capital or from the highlands – they didn’t know the area, even we are raised differently (maybe they cannot hike a lot). Sometimes they don’t know the land, they just go directly to the army, they get captured, and god knows what they do with them. But for me it was easy; but for some people it’s a lot harder. MO: That makes sense. So you relocated first to Ethiopia, right? [12:37] MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, from Eritrea he relocated to the Shimelba refugee camps in Ethiopia – the camp name is Shimelba. Do you want to spell? MO: Yeah. [Laughter] KGI: S-H-I-M-L-B-A. Shimelba. So he relocated from Eritrea to the refugee camp in Ethiopia. MO: And then did you go to any other refugee camps? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: From that refugee camp he directly came to the United States. MO: Okay. What was your experience like in that camp? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 8 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: It was kind of okay for me because I was raised in rural area, and that place was a rural area. And since I was raised working with my family, in that refugee camp I was allowed to work; I was working, earning money. So for me it was not [??]; it was kind of okay. MO: But it would be hard for people from the capital, maybe? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [15:43] KGI: For some people it was hard because we were getting only 15 kilos of weight (around 30 pounds), and I was raised in a rural area around that area, so it was okay for me – I can go and work, communicate with the people because they got the same behavior[??]. But the refugee in the [??], they tend not to leave the camp – if you leave the camp it’s all your responsibility if something happens, so some people they get scared; but for me, it’s okay just leave and work – clear my mind and then come back. So some people they don’t want to leave the camp, some people they don’t know how to work in the farm. So you can’t [??] with the 15 kilos of weight; if you are lucky, if you have families in the U.S. or England, they ask for money or for help. But there were a lot of people struggling in that camp. MO: Did they have small houses for you, or how was the living situation? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah most of the times they don’t give us houses; for his case he get a plot of land – most of the time they give them a plot of land, you have to make your own house. Even for him they didn’t give him a plot of land, there was some of his friends (they have their own plot of land, they give it to him – he build his own house. He don’t know if they made houses for the first arrival refugees (because the refugee camp starts a couple of years before he arrived). He hears they help some women if they got problems, maybe children or other stuff; but if you are a man, they don’t give you anything – they just give you a plot of land: you have to make your own house. MO: So did you arrive by yourself and then some of your family came after? [18:38] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 9 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I cross the border with my brother – he has three children here – he met a woman over there, he get married with her in the refugee camp, and then she came here. MO: Okay. KGI: Only he made his house – KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: And now they are not even married, they are friends. MO: Okay. Is she still there, or is she here? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: She is here. MO: Okay, good. Were you assigned a job, or did you kind of find one on your own? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: In my case I was going out to the farmers near the camp, and ask the job from them – they can give you farm work, or construction – not big construction, but he just make some building walls and things like that – I do whatever I find. But there are some people they are educated [??] they work with [??] the camp, or something with the refugee administration. But for him, he was going to farmers and ask for a job. MO: Okay. How did you celebrate holidays in your camp? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [21:39] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 10 KGI: Because it’s the same culture, so we have everything what we can have in Eritrea; with whatever we got we make injera, we make soya (soya is a local drink in Eritrea), and we kill a goat, and we celebrate. MO: Is it easier – it’s probably easier, I shouldn’t even be asking this – it’s probably easier to celebrate in the camp, then (your holidays), rather than in the U.S., right? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah he said in American you can find anything at the shopping centers, but some people – they have money, they can afford it; but there are lot of them who cannot afford it. So it is easier here in American than in the camp. MO: Okay. Because you can’t go to Wal-Mart and buy a goat or a sheep [laughs]. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah you can buy meat over there. [Laughter] MO: That’s true. Well but we have farms, too, that you can go to and buy animals, right? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: Yeah [responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah there is an old man and a woman somewhere in this 600 South, they sell sheeps, chickens – I always go there and buy goats. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: And they got a place, and he kills a goat and takes the meat and sells it fresh over there. MO: Good. They’re not worried about that or anything? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: They got a place for killing the sheep – Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 11 MO: Um-hmm? KGI: Even they show up, “Hey, you want to kill it – go kill it over there,” (to kill fresh stuff). MO: Nice! That’s a good deal. KG: Um-hmm [speaking in Tigrinya]. KGI: And they know us – when they see us they say, “Ah, it’s the guys who kill the goats.” [Laughter] KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: I know they don’t like us to kill the sheeps because they show us the place and they run away to their apartment. [Laughter] [25:02] MO: Yeah, I think it’s alarming for Americans to think that they would have to kill their own animals; we just like to pretend that we’re not eating animals, I think. KGI: Yeah. [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] [Laughter] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I understand that. [Laughter] MO: I feel like the weird one, because it makes sense to take care of your own food like that. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: So he said for us it’s very [??]: we want to take care of our own food, we feel comfortable when we kill our sheep or goat. Sometimes it’s kind of hard to go to the shop and buy a meat because you don’t know who killed the sheep. We are kind of strict in our religion orthodox: you have to kill it yourself, you have to say, “By the name of God, Son, and the Holy Spirit;” and we feel comfortable. Most of the time we eat only sheep or goat, so if it’s other animal, hmm, we don’t feel comfortable (because we don’t eat pork). Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 12 MO: That’s typically a Muslim – KGI: If it’s Muslim they don’t eat it before we kill it. MO: Oh, okay. But I mean that’s Old Law, right? KGI: Yeah, it come from the Jews. MO: Right. KGI: Then the Muslim and the Christian, they are branches. MO: Because I know with like Catholics and Protestants – they don’t have any problem eating pork. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [28:22] KGI: Yeah, Islam – they have their own way; they are different from us. But if I go to Wal- Mart and buy meat, I don’t know whether it’s a sheep’s meat, or it’s a donkey’s meat: it’s just a meat, we don’t know. But according the way we are raised, and according to our religion – if I kill it, I know it’s a sheep or a goat. So we feel comfortable if we kill our sheep and goat (or other animals), and we know what we are killing, and we blessed it by saying, “In the name of God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” So we feel comfortable if we kill our own animals, rather than going to Wal-Mart and buying meat we don’t know. MO: Do you feel safe in the camp? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: For me, I was not scared for my safety; I always go out of the camp, work in the field, even sometime there are nights I spend my nights in the field. I am not a city boy – I was raised in farm and all our thing is doing the fields and spending the nights with the animals. So I didn’t have any problem, and I wasn’t scared because I don’t have any crime, I don’t have [??]. But there might be some people, even I remember one person who died in the fields – nobody knows who killed him; still nobody knows what happened to that guy. MO: Hmm. Did you feel welcomed by the Ethiopians? Because I know that you’re very closely related. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 13 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] [31:20] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: As long as I was over there I don’t have any problem. Even I don’t have any problem, they always tell us not to leave the camp; if you leave the camp you are responsible for what happen to you – and they are right, they cannot protect you out of the camp. But with the people who are just going together, going along – we don’t have any problem. But I heard when I come here there was some fight in the camp. MO: Hmm. How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya. KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: When I was crossing the border from Eritrea to Ethiopia, I didn’t have any idea about the U.S. refugee program, I just knew I wanted when I went to the refugee camp. KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, when we crossed (me and my brother), we don’t know what was the refugee program over there (even we didn’t know there was a camp). So when they crossed the border, the people who give them – after they crossed Ethiopia they were talking to [??] Amharic[?], but he don’t know Amharic[?], his brother knows a little bit of Hamari – they were telling them, “You guys are going to Shimelba refugee camp, there are other Eritreans over there. You guys will go to America.” And [??] says what is Amharic talking about; but when they took them the refugee camp there were lots of Eritreans, and they knew the refugee program to the United States from the other Eritreans who were in the camp before them. MO: Did they help you apply – because it sounds like they told you, you were going to go? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [36:22] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 14 KGI: Okay. When he crossed first the border the Ethiopian army, when they caught you they took you to some place (they call it [??]), then they register, “Who are you guys? Where do you come from?” Things like that. Then after they confirm they are from Eritrea and things like that, they send them to Shimelba refugee camp. Then the Shimelba [??] the refugee camp, they transfer all your paperwork with them, because these people in [??], they ask them a lot of questions in their own office, they register them. So they send their resume and their session papers refugee camp in Shimelba. In the Shimelba camp there are a lot of organizations they put them. There is Ara[??], these Ara are the people who gives them food – that means who gives them the food and other things. And there is a UNCR – they process the papers for a refugee to United States. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, this UNCR – they process their guys to U.S., Australia and Canada. But there is not a lot of obligations things to do if you are in the country on the border, they put in paperwork, the Ethiopian army or police [??] – they transfer all their papers Shimelba refugee camp; after that you just wait for interview. MO: So the process took six years? When did you interview? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [38:37] KGI: Yeah, he is not sure about the months, but the interview was around 2010. KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: [Responding in Tigrinya.] He said I don’t remember the exact month, but I have my own record so maybe it’s in my cards. MO: It will be important for your kids and grandkids one day. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: Yeah. MO: Tell me about coming to the U.S. – what was it like? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 15 KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [Conversation back and forth between Kahsaoy and Berhane in Tigrinya.] [42:12] KGI: Yeah, he said when they come here they got a problem transit in Germany – [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Transit in Frankfurt – so when they leave the airplane the IOM people (they are the people who help with them with the airplane tickets, because they have to pay it back) – one of the IOM came he took other people, but for us he told us, “Just number 57.” And he said I don’t know anything about airports, even I don’t know anything about city life so I don’t know where to find number 57. But finally I just found it, but when I go over there I don’t know who to ask and I don’t know what to do. And we were struggling and stressed out in that airport; finally I saw an Ethiopian guy (he speaks some Amharic), and I talk to him. Then he went inside and he check with the airplane reservation things, and he told him to wait for some time. And we don’t have any money or we don’t have any dollar with us; and my daughter was crying because she was so hungry and she was crying so loud. The trip was okay, but we have a problem in Germany and nobody can help us. MO: Did you come to Salt Lake – were you assigned to Salt Lake? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: We were in Maryland. MO: And then from Maryland to Salt Lake? KG: We were assigned in Maryland. MO: So you haven’t transferred, or you’re still technically assigned? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: They were assigned in Maryland, then they moved to Utah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 16 MO: That’s a big difference. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: Yeah. [Laughter] MO: You’re probably more comfortable here because we have so much farming, and Maryland doesn’t have anything? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He said I like this place. MO: Yeah, I think I like it a lot more too. [Laughter] KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: I like agriculture, so I was happy when I moved to this place. MO: Good. How long were you in Maryland? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I was in Maryland for eight months and some days. MO: What did you do for work? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He was working in Lancaster Food Company – they were packing vegetables. MO: Okay. And did you come to Utah because you heard about JBS? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 17 [46:18] KGI: Okay. I heard about JBS, even I had that work that company he was working in Lancaster, it’s all the way in Utah (he didn’t know exactly where), but it’s somewhere around here. And besides that, they told me this is kind of rural area, not big metropolitan city like Maryland. Since I was raised on a farm I try to be close to farm, so that’s why I moved here. MO: Okay. There was something I was going to ask – I have to remember it. Oh, I am curious about what you thought living in Eritrea, what the expectation is of what Americans are like, and how did that change? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: When I was in Eritrea, I didn’t know enough about America (I just know America is a good place to live and a great country). When I come I was worried because as far as I figured America in my brain it was just big metropolitan area – I didn’t even know America has farmlands and rural areas. And when I come first, the first city I saw was big so many buildings on it; I was worried, “What I’m going to do in this country? How I’m going to live?” I don’t know any language, I don’t have education. But when I saw it’s okay, I can survive and the [??] has everything. But my expectation and what I found is so different; I was thinking about big buildings and metropolitan areas, but there are a lot of rural and farm areas too. MO: That’s good; it’s good that we have farms. [Laughter] MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [50:22] KGI: He say we are processing a lot of [??] in our brain because we are told this is hard country to live – even people will tell you that you can get lost inside America and nobody is going to find you. Even when I was coming from Maryland to Utah some people told me, “You’re going to get lost,” even I was scared I might get lost in between, so nobody is going to find me. But everything is [??] I’m told about in America – even if I get lost if I got some offices they come bring me a translator. So it’s a good country and everything is arranged. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 18 MO: Good, because I think a lot of Americans want to get lost, but we don’t feel like we can because our government keeps pretty good track of us. [Laughter] MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: They don’t get lost. [Laughter] MO: I’m not worried about you – if you can live on a farm, you deserve the right of being in the U.S. I think. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Now I can figure it out, even I cannot get lost in big cities because there are ways he can communicate with others. MO: Absolutely. So when you moved from Maryland to Utah, did the government help you in any way? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, when he moved he didn’t get any help. He just worked and he paid his travel expense with the money we saved. But when he was moving he took the agency who helped them, because he had so many medical papers (he got surgery on his) – [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He got surgery on his left eye, so they collected all his paperwork and other medical records. And they gave all their paperwork to him, and he just moved with his own money. MO: Did you know anyone in Logan, or did you just sort of come in and find a place to live and work? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 19 KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah there were some people I know who live here; even my girlfriend – she first moved here because she got her brothers here, and then I just followed her. If we don’t know anyone we cannot move, because we cannot move in a place we don’t know anything. MO: Um-hmm. So you have a lot of friends, and even relatives here – do you feel included by the rest of the community? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [55:37] KGI: I don’t feel isolated from the community because they help us with anything we ask of them, even sometimes when we come first I just have the address in my hand but I cannot look at my apartment – I ask them, “Hey, do you know where this address is?” Some of them they just show me, but there are some good people that just took me until I reached the address I am looking for. So these people are loving people and they are good people. MO: Is there anything that we could do to help you feel more at home? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I can’t ask for more because there is work opportunity, other stuff, but I prefer to have a farmland to make my own farm – I don’t want to work in JBS forever because I have eye problem sometimes it’s kind of hard for me to work the whole day. I have nowhere to ask, but if possible I would like to have a farm and do my own farm. MO: That’s the American Dream. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] MO: Every American wants to have a farm [laughing]. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: It’s a good dream; even I want to have a farm – that’s my field. MO: Yeah, I think it makes you a good American [laughing] to have that dream. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 20 MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] [Laughter] MO: So you have five kids still in Africa? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, they are in Africa. MO: Are you going to try to bring them to the United States? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [59:30] KGI: Yeah, I would love to bring them here, but the problem is how can they leave Eritrea? We cross the border, but they are too young to cross the border – they might have a lot of problems, they need an adult to take them out. The older one and his younger brother, they are already out in the refugee camp, but for the rest of them: they are too young to cross the border. So he is trying to figure out how they can retrieve them, get Visas for them. MO: The three you have here, are they in school or are they too young? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: The younger one is younger (he was just born in United States) – KG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KGI: The older one, she goes to KG[??] here – I don’t know but he was telling me the school somewhere around 300 North 300 West? MO: Okay. KGI: She goes there – the older one of the three; but the younger one is only two months old. MO: So not even talking yet? [Laughs] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 21 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: The youngest is too young – not talking, but the other one is older – KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He is an American before I am. [Laughter] MO: Speaks English and everything? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [Laughter] KGI: Yeah, he talks English. [Laughter] MO: Good. How are the experiences with your landlord? Are you in an apartment? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, he lives in an apartment and he doesn’t have any problem with his landlord. MO: What would you like people in Logan to know about you and your community? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] [End part 1 of 2 – 62:06] [Part 2 of 2 – 00:01] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 22 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He said most of us in Logan we are here from villages in Eritrea: when we come, we came from rural areas (there are some who came from the cities). So we don’t know a lot of stuff because we are new and we are born in farm areas and sometimes we need help – [Phone ringing] We need help how to figure out how things work here, and sometimes I wish if the city can give us some farmland in something that grows because we are good in farm. I prefer to work in a farm with some of my community [??]. And we also need education – we’ve got children and we need education for us and for our children. MO: Um-hmm. Are the English classes helping then? Are you able to find any other – or what kind of education do you need? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [02:58] KGI: There is English school – that’s good, but sometimes it’s kind of far for us (some of us who don’t have cars), and sometimes we work in JBS this hard work all over and spending day in JBS and going to school is kind of hard. So if possible if they do it on the weekends it would be better, because we don’t have anything to do on the weekends – we can go there and study. MO: Okay; that would be a good idea. KGI: Um-hmm. MO: Would you ever go back home? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, I have a lot of family over there, but I would not go over there – I don’t think I can go there. I love living here. MO: Okay. What are you most proud of? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 23 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: I am proud I can work and even myself because it’s not good to ask help every time from other people or other organizations. And I’m proud I am healthy, except I have problems with my eye; but I can work, I am healthy. And I am proud I have children with me here in the United States. And I am proud I am living here. MO: To own a farm is the ultimate dream? [05:07] MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yes, his dream is to own a farm. [Laughs] MO: Okay, well if you have a farm in America, you have to get a cowboy hat. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: Okay. [Laughter] MO: So that should be a dream too, to own a cowboy hat. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] [Laughter] MO: Do you have any other dreams? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah I have a lot of dreams, but I will do it one by one; we will see in the future – for example, I want to own my own house (I don’t want to live in apartments forever). It’s a good idea to own house first. MO: Um-hmm; good. Well those are all the questions I have. So do you have any questions for us, or does anyone else have any questions? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 24 MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KGI: Do you guys have any questions? No? ??: Have you heard about the garden that Nelda has? ??I: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] ??: The refugee garden? KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [07:40] KGI: There were a couple of guys who talked to Nelda about farm – ??: Um-hmm? KGI: And she send them to another lady named Jillian (he guess, or something like that). So she got an appointment to meet somewhere and to discuss about it, but they didn’t make it – they were mis-communicated about the appointment place or time. After that they didn’t hear anything about that. ??: Well hopefully that can happen. MO: That’s everything. I think we’re going to conclude this interview. We want to thank you again for meeting with us and telling us a little bit about, I don’t know, your life. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [09:23] KGI: Okay. I don’t know whether you guys can answer this question: but he was saying in this country they tell us you cannot punish your child, and children – they make a lot of [??] and a lot of [??] stuff and you cannot [??] them. If you do not [??] them, they go worse and worse and worse. So if you don’t [??] them, how can you correct them? Back home when children get mistakes or they do something bad, we punish them accordingly. MO: Um-hmm? KGI: So when we come here we don’t know anything and they told us we cannot punish our children – they do lot of crazy stuff and nonsense stuff, and we just look at them because we cannot punish them. So he wants to know, can we punish our children or not? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 25 MO: That is a great debate. [Laughter] If you ask my dad, you can discipline your kids – but make sure that they know that you still love them. MOI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: In Eritrea my children – Eritrea is a good country, but when my children make mistakes, I punish them and they know why they are punished. Even if I punish them they love me and they know I love them, because they are my children. ??: And I would suggest, because I know that my friend – because you could get in trouble like if you – it is kind of crazy here. Like if they’re doing something naughty in the store, she’ll take them out to her car, or she’ll take them when she gets home. So I think in your home, then no one can say anything. MO: You don’t want – it’s interesting; discipline in America is very different, it’s very interesting because it is such a big debate. MOI: [Repeating the statements in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [13:03] KGI: Even back home we just don’t – kids, if we hit them we don’t hit them in front of other people; we just tell them what they did mistakes and we punish accordingly (sometimes we can take stuff they have, the stuff they play with or other things – it depends what they got). But here is kind of hard. MO: Well I think that’s how you should do it. ??: So you’re doing it right, if you do it. MOI: [Repeating the statements in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: He is saying if we don’t punish our children, what are you raising – some of them they will not go to school, some of them will be thieves or other stuff. And the worst thing I hate is prostitution – I don’t want my children to be that. Because if I don’t [??] them, if I Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Kahsaoy Berhe Gebremedhin Page 26 don’t talk to them they are not going to know what is right and what’s wrong. So he say I just want to know whether I can punish and discipline my children. MO: I say yes. KG: [Laughs] [Responding in Tigrinya.] [Laughter] MO: Well we are going to at least stop the recording here, but just a final question: you are okay if we use this and put it in the archives, and use it for educational purposes? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: Yeah, I don’t have any problem; you can put it. This is what happened to my lives, it’s a very important thing. And I don’t have anything to hide – I tell you what the real thing is. It’s not political; the only thing I hate is politics. So I’m okay if you guys put it in the archive. MO: Okay. And online too? MOI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] KG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] KGI: No problem. MO: Okay; thank you. KG: You’re welcome. MO: Thank you, thank you. [End part 2 of 2 – 16:28]
Kahsay Gebremedhin, 1971-;
Berhane Debesai, 1980-;
Olsen, Magen, 1986-;
Gross, Susan;
189675 Bytes
Eritrea; Ethiopia; Germany; Maryland; Salt Lake, Utah;
Kahsay Gebremedhin interview, May 23, 2015
audio/mp3;
75448733 Bytes
Interview with Afeworki Woldemichael in Logan, Utah, 2015 May 17
71621802 Bytes
Berhane Debesai Abraha interview transcription, May 17, 2015
Eritrea; Ethiopia; Refugees; Eritrean cuisine; Eritrean education; Eritrean government; Language barriers; Family; Eritrean holidays; Eritrean coffee ceremony; Eritrean homes
Interview with Berhane Debesai Abraha on the third floor of the Ray B. West building on the campus of Utah State University, May 17, 2015. He talks about his home country of Eritrea, his transition to life in the US, his plans, and the hardships refugees face in the community.
eng;
Eritrea; Sudan; Kenya; California; Utah;
Interview with Seltene Gebretinsa in Logan, Utah, 2015 May 16
Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Ethiopia; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsal-- Interviews
Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa tells about his birthplace in Eritrea, a little bit about his family and his religion. He talks about his 11 year service in the army as an impetus to flee his country and become a refugee. He discusses his journey as a refugee, first in Malta, and the process to eventually come to the United States. He talks about adjusting to living in the United States, from taking classes to learn English and working to support himself. He talks about his wife and children he left behind, and his hopes of being able to have them join him in the United States.
Seltene Gebrelasie Gebretinsa, 1975-;
oral histories (document genre)
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Segeneiti, Eritrea; Sudan; Libya; Malta; England; New York, New York; Las Vegas, Nevada;
Berhane Debesai Abraha interview, May 17, 2015
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Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Present: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa, Hilary Warner-Evans, Berhane Debesai Abraha, Heidi Williams, Megan Olsan Place of Interview: Logan Public Library, Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 16, 2015 Language(s): Tigrinya Translation: Interviewer: Hilary Warner-Evans Interpreter: Berhane Debesai Abraha Recordist: Heidi Williams Photographer: Magen Olsen Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 22, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 24, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa tells about his birthplace in Eritrea, a little bit about his family and his religion. He talks about his 11 year service in the army as an impetus to flee his country and become a refugee. He discusses his journey as a refugee, first in Malta, and the process to eventually come to the United States. He talks about adjusting to living in the United States, from taking classes to learn English and working to support himself. He talks about his wife and children he left behind, and his hopes of being able to have them join him in the United States. Reference: HW = Hilary Warner-Evans HWI = Hilary Warner-Evans’ words interpreted by translator SG = Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa SGGI: = Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa’s words interpreted by translator NOTE: The interview was conducted with the assistance of a live translator, Berhane Debesai Abraha. The interpreter was there for the whole period. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 2 [00:01] HWE: Okay, it is May 16th, 2015. This is Hilary Warner-Evans interviewing Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa. SGG: Yeah. HWE: And he is a member of the Eritrean community here, in Logan, Utah. We are at the Logan Public Library, in the Temple Fork Room. And Berhane Debesai Abraha is translating into Tigrinya. And also present are Heidi Williams, recording, and Magen Olsen, doing photography. Can you – we’ve actually already gone over part of this – but can you give me your full name and your birth year? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: His birthday is January 1, 1975. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: And his name is Seltene Gebreselasie. HWE: Okay. And can you tell me about your family? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Okay, no problem; I can tell you about my family: I was born in east Africa, in Eritrea, and my father is Gebreselasie Gebretinsa. Okay. SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGGI: And I was born in southern zone, it’s called Zoba Debub in Tigrinya, and the place he was born in Segeneiti – it’s a small village. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: It’s around 70 kilometers south of the capital city Asmara. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 3 SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGGI: I was born and raised in Segeneiti, and when my age reached 18, I went for National Service. SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGGI: And I have been in the army for around 11 years, and life was not comfortable for me. And I just left the country and moved some other place. HWE: Do you have any brothers or sisters? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yes. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he has one sister, and there are four boys. Aand there was another brother – [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he died in the war with Ethiopia before 1994 – the War of Liberation with Ethiopian’s army; he died in the struggle. HWE: And are you the only member of your family here, in the United States? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he’s the only one. HWE: What languages do you speak? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 4 SGGI: He speaks Tigrinya. HWE: And what ethnic or religious community do you consider yourself to be a part of? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He is a Christian; he is a follower of Eritrean Orthodox Church. HWE: Can you tell me a little bit about Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [06:31] SGGI: Eritrea is a beautiful and comfortable country to live, but at this time because of the situation of the war and the political system, it’s not becoming favorable for the people to live in it. SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, at this time Eritrea is kind of in a war, so everybody is in the army for ten years or more; so people cannot live their life, cannot support their family – so everybody is leaving to help themself and to improve their life and the life of their family. So that’s why I move out of the country: in search of a good life, and better life. HWE: How long did you live in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He was living in Eritrea starting the date of his birth, 1975, up to 2008. HWE: Can you tell me about the experience of leaving? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, I am married and I have two children; since I was in the army I cannot support them, I cannot do anything. And it was for a long time. So I want to improve my life and my family’s lives. And I leave Eritrea to the Sudan’s border; then from Sudan he went to Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 5 Libya, through the desert there. He crosses the Mediterranean to Malta; and from Malta he came to the United States. HWE: Did you spend any time in a camp while you were coming over? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He was in Malta from 2008, up to 2012, under the Refugee Commission. HWE: What was it like being with the Refugee Commission in Malta? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: So Malta’s refugee camp was kind of good, because you are free to move out. So he was not in the camp, he was working in Malta – [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya] SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He was working with some farmers on the farm. So while he was a refugee, until he comes to the United States, he was working earning money, and he was supporting his family and himself. So they didn’t have anything to worry in Malta, because they could work and they were working. [10:57] HWE: So how did you – when you were working on a farm back in Eritrea. HWEI: Eritrea. HWE: Right? HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, I was born in a farming family, so I was raised with them – so I was working on a farm. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 6 HWE: Can you talk about the food or the medical care that you received when you were in the refugee camp in Malta? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Okay, in the refugee camp in Malta, for the first seven months we were under the Refugee Commission until they finish all our registration and until they check and double-check our information. So they were providing us food, the house was clean; they give us shelter, clothes and bed. But after seven months, when they finish the registration stuff, we were allowed to leave the camp and to work. So after that I was working and earning money myself, and I was living by myself. HWE: What kind of work did you do? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He was working with the local farmers. HWE: Okay. SGGI: So they got a big farm. He was working with them. HWE: How did you celebrate, like, holidays when you were living in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [14:06] SGGI: Okay, he say it was okay; Maltans, they have a lot of holidays – and we celebrate all holidays with them. And their biggest holiday is Christmas, and we were celebrating it with the people. SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGGI: And their second holiday was Easter, and we are celebrating it with them. HWE: What kinds of things did you do for Christmas and Easter? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 7 SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he is saying he was so close with the family he was working with; they were kind of parents for me. And for the purpose of work he was rented in front, close to them; so most of the time, 25% of the time, he was celebrating the holiday with them. HWE: And how did that differ from how you celebrated it back in your home country? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: It’s kind of the same – they didn’t have any difference. HWE: Okay. So did you eat like any particular foods, or do anything particular? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He said in Malta they kind of live in extended family, so most of the time on holidays they don’t cook – they just go out all together. So since he was working with them, they always take him with them, and they go out and order food and get it; they don’t cook at all. HWE: Okay. And did you do anything else besides go out to eat? Did you go to church or anything like that? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [17:51] SGGI: Okay. In Malta they always go to church Saturday evening and Sunday morning. So the church was close to my apartment, and I kind of know their language at that time – so I used to go to their church. HWE: Now was it like an Orthodox church? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: No, Catholic. HWE: Okay. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 8 SGGI: It was a Catholic church. HWE: So was that very different for you to go to a Catholic church, instead of Orthodox? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He said for him it doesn’t make any difference because in his home town, tthe place he grow up, the majority of the people are Catholics, and few are Orthodox; so he knows what Catholic is, and their culture. HWE: And in the camp – were there other people from Eritrea there? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: A lot. HWE: Was that the majority of the people there? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: The majority of the refugees were Somalians and people from West Africa. HWE: So did you end up celebrating at all with other people from your home country? Or did you mostly just go with the people you were working for? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he was saying the refugee’s holidays – they are always the same, so he was celebrating it with the family he was working; but the public holidays – he was celebrating them with the people from Eritrea. HWE: What kinds of public holidays did you celebrate? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [21:39] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 9 SGGI: He said the religious holidays are the same, so he would sometime celebrate them with the family he was working, but holidays like May 24th (that means it’s Eritrean Independence Day) and June 20 (it’s kind of Memorial Day – we call it the Martyrs’ Day) – he was celebrating it with the Eritreans. HWE: And how did you celebrate those holidays? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Most of the people – after they were allowed to leave the camp in war, they rented their own apartment, so they would celebrate the whole island. So when there is holidays they rent a big hall, and they prepare food and drinks, and they celebrate it together. HWE: And what kinds of food and drinks did you have? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: For the foods they buy meat and some of them they prepare ingera, and they just make food just like the way we do at home. And for the drink they just buy beer. HWE: So for the meat would you get like a whole animal? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: So they were buying beef from groceries. HWE: Okay. And did you get the beer from the grocery too? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [Laughs] SGGI: Yeah, that is the only way – you can buy it from groceries [laughs]. HWE: [Laughs] So how did Malta feel about the refugees coming in from Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 10 SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [25:06] SGGI: Malta is a small island, its population is around half million, 500,000. So at first, when the refugees come to their area, they didn’t like it because it’s a small country, and there are a lot of refugees; but some time they get used to them, so they were friendly. Then after they get their refugee status, American Immigration System, they came to them and they give them asylum to the United States. HWE: So did you feel safe when you were there? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He says the country is so nice – it’s a free country, nobody talks to you, nobody even asks, nobody stops you. But when they first arrived in Malta, the people they don’t like them; sometimes even if they see another Eritrean or another refugee on the bus they just leave the whole bus. But after some time they get used to them Then they didn’t care anymore. HWE: And how did you learn about the U.S. refugee program? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: There was a refugee office over there, a refugee commission office, so he go over there to the office, and there are a lot of refugee places to go: Europe, Canada, America (or United States of America), and Australia. You choose which area you want to go, you just go and you settle with them and they take care of your process. HWE: Okay, so you can choose which country you want to go to? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [28:42] SGGI: They ask you question and if you want to go to Germany, France, Holland (or the Netherlands), Slovakia, and Hungary. I don’t want to go that places, so I tell them that I am not going to these places and they give me opportunity to go to the United States. HWE: And how did you apply to do that? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 11 HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, at that time, the United States were taking a lot of Eritrean refugees, so as soon as I know the United States taking refugees, I went there and applied. And it took me around seven years to process everything. And I did my interview and they gave me the congratulation paper. That means they accepted him. And after that he came to the United States. HWE: So did someone in the office help you do that process, with all the paperwork and stuff? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, in their office they have a translator, a paid translator, so I go through the process. In Malta at the Immigration Office you cannot do it the way we do it in Africa, because in Africa you can bribe stuff like that, but in Malta you cannot do that; you have to go through all the process. They provide you translator, and they check everything, your background and other stuff. And when you pass everything they tell you when you come. When you finish your immigration process, then when they approve you, you just come to the United States. [31:34] HWE: And can you tell me a little bit about the journey to the United States? HWEI: You mean the airplane journey? HWE: Yeah, or how you go from Malta to the U.S.? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Okay. So when all their process is done, when their flight is scheduled to show up in Malta, the Refugee Commission – they took them to the airport; they put them in the airplanes and they showed them their chair and they told them, “Good luck, have a nice trip.” And from Malta, they fly to England for a transit. And in England some people were waiting for them – and the same thing: these people, they took them to the next Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 12 airplane, and they put them on the airplane (they same the thing), “Good luck, nice trip.” And after that, from England they landed in New York. HWE: And were there other Eritrean refugees going on the plane with you? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: There were four Eritreans and three Somalians on the plane. HWE: So you came to New York first. Did you fly, then, directly from New York to Salt Lake? Or did you spend time in another place in the U.S.? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [34:51] SGGI: Okay, when they come from Malta, their destination was not New York – it was Las Vegas, Nevada; but they stayed two days in New York because the weather was bad. Planes could not fly that day; so they stayed two days. Then after the weather got normal, they flew to Las Vegas, Nevada, for their final destination. And he stayed three months in Las Vegas. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWE: What time of year was it when you were flying? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: It was December 7, 2012. HWE: What were the first months like in Las Vegas? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 13 SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He said, Las Vegas is okay, but I didn’t like it – it’s too hot. But I stayed there for three months because he was going to English classes. After he finished the first three months of the class, then he moved to – [speaking Tigrinya to interviewee] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He moved to Logan. HWE: Where were you taking English classes in Las Vegas? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He was going to the Catholic school church, because this Catholic school – the Catholics, they got an organization for the refugees (they help with their flight and other stuff). So he was going there – it was for free. The first couple of months when you show up here, you need to get your social security, you have to get your ID (that is a kind of work permit). So I was waiting for the papers, but I decided to go to school instead of just sitting and wait for the papers. HWE: Were you there with other members of the Eritrean community? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [38:21] SGGI: When he come from Malta, he was with three other Eritreans (that means four of them), so they were all assigned to Las Vegas. So four of them, they give them one house with three bedrooms; so they were staying together for the first three months. And after three months he moved to Logan. HWE: And the others stayed in Las Vegas? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: They stayed there; they are still there. HWE: What else was Las Vegas like, besides too hot? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 14 HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He said Las Vegas has a lot of big building, beautiful places: hotels, houses and other stuff – but it’s not like Utah; I didn’t like it. He can’t see a lot of stuff there. HWE: So you were in like a more rural area when you were in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he was more in a rural area. Then he moved to a small town. HWE: How could your situation, when you first came to the United States, have been improved? I mean, in terms of like the help you received. HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [41:28] SGGI: When they first showed up – the United States government helps us a lot: they do whatever we need necessary. When we first show up they give us 1100 dollars each in our hand, but we don’t know anybody in this country, so they ask the Refugee Commission to rent house for them. So they help them to rent a house or apartment with their money. And everyone, they were given – [speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: They were giving them 350 dollars every month. They were assigned to take 350 for eight months, but as soon as he moved in the third month he get 350 dollars every month for the first three months. And he came to Logan, so they cut the money they were giving him. HWE: Oh. So when you decided to move to another place they stopped giving you the money? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 15 SGGI: He said you can take it – they don’t stop it, but most of the time if you got a job, I don’t need any assistance. So thanks God when I moved here, I got a job, so I don’t want to take money anymore. HWE: Did you not have a job in Las Vegas? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: No. HWE: Okay. How long have you lived in Logan? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Two years. HWE: And where do you work? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: JBS Beef Company. SGGI: JBS Beef Company in Hyrum. HWE: What is like here? HWEI: You mean work, or? HWE: Work and just life in general in this area. HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [44:05] SGGI: He likes Utah – it’s a good place to live; I didn’t see any bad things here, so it’s a nice place to live here. HWE: Do you feel like you’re included in the Logan community? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 16 HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: This is a good place to live. Most of the time we spend our time at work, so he cannot say anything about any other people; they cannot say they include me, they didn’t include me, but every time we are at work and at home. HWE: Do you live with other people here? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] HWE: Oh, you live on your own, right? You said that already. HWEI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, he got two roommates. HWE: Oh, okay. Okay, is there anything that you think would make you feel more at home here? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He said now I want to stay in America, so I am improving my life and I am looking for a better opportunities. We are waiting for this country to grow up and for us to get more opportunities. HWE: How is living here different than living back home? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [47:44] SGGI: Life in America is so expensive, rent is expensive; you cannot live if you don’t have work. And even though you are not going to live with anybody, everybody wants money. Back home, life is not expensive; so, for example, if you don’t have any apartment to Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 17 live, you can live with families, you can live with other people for some time; you can share with everybody. But here you have to work hard and pay a lot of money for life. HWE: How has it been renting an apartment or house? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He said when I compare with Malta – In Malta I used to have my own one bedroom apartment and that one bedroom includes everything: furniture, bed, kitchen utensils, refrigerator, and everything – and he was paying only 150 dollar for it (150 Euros for it). But here, rent is so expensive it’s just – cannot compare; it’s too expensive. HWE: And what is your landlord like? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [50:29] SGGI: Yeah, he is sole renter of the apartment they live in now – the landlord, we never sees him. There was a time when we used to go over their place, but now they got a drop box; we just write a money order or check, you just drop it. They don’t say anything; they don’t even come to the apartment. HWE: What would you like people in Logan to know about you and other members of your community here? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He is saying I would like to thank for, not only for Logan, but for the government of the United States, because they know we got in trouble, so they are helping us: they are bringing us over here, and they tried to find jobs and apartments for us. So I came to the United States in Las Vegas when I came here, and they’re still helping me. But the state of Utah, they accept a lot of refugees from Eritrea, and they try to help them with work, school, housing and other stuffs. So I appreciate the United States government for helping the Eritrean communities, and I want them to keep helping because there are still more people who needs extra help. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 18 HWE: Would you go back to Eritrea if you were able to do that? HWEI: You mean to visit, or just go back entirely? HWE: Both, I guess. HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [54:07] SGGI: He is saying as long as the political situation is the same in Eritrea and the government stays there, I don’t want to go there and I cannot go there because this government is not treating us well. I have been in the army for 11 years. How can a person stay in the army for 11 years without payment. But if administration changed, I would like to go visit my families and see Eritrea; all the people of Eritrea are friendly and nice people. So I want to go there and see them; it has been too long since the time I was out of Eritrea. HWE: So you said earlier you had a wife and two kids in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, I have a wife and two kids. HWE: Are you still in communication with them? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, I call them. HWE: Do you send them money? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah. SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 19 SGGI: Yeah, I am the sole helper of the [???] community. HWE: Do they have any plans to come join you here? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, I applied for them to join me here, and the immigration system (or the Visa center), they approved my application – they even called them for interview, but my children, they are so small so I cannot take them out safely, so I don’t want to expose them in danger because they are too young. So they are entirely dependent, so when they grow up or when there is a possibility to take them out they will come and join him. HWE: How old are your children? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: The boy is ten and the girl is eight. HWE: What are you most proud of, in terms of having come here? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [57:42] SGGI: He said I am proud to be here because this country is a big country, and there is a lot of opportunities if you think hard and work hard you can do whatever you want to do: you can go to school – you can work and go to school. So the only thing you need to do here is just work hard and think hard, and you just do whatever you want to do; you can reach your dreams. HWE: What are your dreams for the future? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [High pitched feedback noise begins 58:29] SGGI: He saying when we come here I need to learn – so he was going to school [??] for four months; and now he is going to the English school. So he his plans now is to work in the daytime and go to school in the evening in order to improve his life. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 20 HWE: What, specifically, would you like to have change in your life after you learn English? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [High pitched feedback ends 59:45] [60:00] SGGI: Yeah, I never went to school when I was back home, so I didn’t have education background. So the reason I am going to school now is I don’t want to be illiterate, because I will try to read and do his stuff on his own. And when his children show up (or when they come to the United States) he just wants to help them [high pitched feedback noise begins 60:20 when they are in school and other stuff, because he needs to learn the language. If he don’t know the language, he cannot help his own. HWE: I think that might be about it; do you guys have anything you want to ask? [To other fieldworkers] No? Okay. Is there anything that we haven’t asked you that you think we should know? [to interviewee] HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [end feedback noise 61:34, begins again at 61:47 and continues to end] [End part 1 of 2 – 62:05] [Part 2 of 2 – 00:01] [high pitched feedback noise from beginning] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: He saying when they come to the United States when they are in Malta, they gave them three days course how the United States government works and everything. And they told them, “If you guys are married, your family will follow you here between six to eight months. If you are not married, [end feedback noise at 00:37] and if you plan to come back some countries can get married and take them to the United States, if better if you become a citizenship, then it will be easier.” But his wife is in Ethiopia now, his children are in Eritrea, but his wife is in Ethiopia; she did an interview a year ago, but she is still waiting for the flight in Ethiopia. It has been more than two years since he has been here and it has been more than a year since she did the interview; she is just waiting for the flight. So there was some kind of misunderstanding. The way they tell them in Malta, and the way things are going here – they are not the same. HWE: Okay. I think this concludes our interview. Thanks for agreeing to meet with me. And we do have like a release form to put the interview into the Archives at USU, and also, I Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa Page 21 think, [high pitched feedback noise begins 01:40 and continues to end] for it to be used in our online exhibit, and also for– like we are going to have a community event on Thursday that I will tell you more about. HWEI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.] SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] SGGI: Yeah, no problem; he will sign your paper. [End part 2 of 2 – 02:25]
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Ya He Ma Interview transcript, May 28, 2015
<a href="/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=49&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=Ya+He+Ma%2C+Ka+Ma+Din%2C+Har+Be+Bar%2C+Maung+Maung%2C+Fareda%2C+family%2C+refugee%2C+Burmese+Muslim%2C+Burmese%2C+Muslim%2C+Burma%2C+Myanmar%2C+violence%2C+Thai+camp%2C+Thai+refugee+camp%2C+Mae+Sot++immigration%2C+Cache+Valley%2C+JBS+Miller%2C+Logan%2C+immigrant+housing%2C+home%2C+apartment%2C+Voices%3A+Refugee+Project%2C+folklore%2C+Library+of+Congress%2C+sewing%2C+translator%2C+life+in+America%2C+dream">Ya He Ma, Ka Ma Din, Har Be Bar, Maung Maung, Fareda, family, refugee, Burmese Muslim, Burmese, Muslim, Burma, Myanmar, violence, Thai camp, Thai refugee camp, Mae Sot immigration, Cache Valley, JBS Miller, Logan, immigrant housing, home, apartment, Voices: Refugee Project, folklore, Library of Congress, sewing, translator, life in America, dream
Ya He Ma, a Burmese Muslim refugee from the Mae Sot Thailand refugee camp talks about living and working in Mae Sot, violence in the camp, applying for immigration to the United States, arrival in Salt Lake City, Utah, working with caseworkers and aides from the Salt Lake City mosque, working at JBS Miller (both she and her husband Ka Ma Din are employed there), Har Be Bar�s role as translator in the family, and life in America. Ya He Ma�s son Maung Maung and daughter Har Be Bar were in the front room during the interview. Her husband Ka Ma Din joined part way through the interview. Her daughter Fareda was in her bedroom until the interview concluded and we took pictures of the family.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Ya He Ma Present: Ya He Ma (43 years); Har Be Bar (Translator; Ya He Ma’s eldest daughter, 20 years); Ka ma Din, (Ya He Ma’s husband, 42 years); Fareda (Ya He Ma’s youngest daughter, 16 years); Maung Maung (Ya He Ma’s son, 5 years); Deanna Allred (recordist), Cami Dilg (interviewer); David Giles (photographer) Place of Interview: Ya He Ma’s apartment: 274 Riverbend Road, Apartment 4, Logan, Utah, 84321 Date of Interview: 18 May 2015 Language(s): Burmese; English Translation: Interviewer: Cami Dilg Interpreter: Har Be Bar Recordist: Deanna Allred Photographer: David Giles Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe Transcription Software Transcribed by: Cami Dilg, 23 May 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Brief Description of Contents: Ya He Ma, a Burmese Muslim refugee from the Mae Sot Thailand refugee camp talks about living and working in Mae Sot, violence in the camp, applying for immigration to the United States, arrival in Salt Lake City, Utah, working with caseworkers and aides from the Salt Lake City mosque, working at JBS Miller (both she and her husband Ka Ma Din are employed there), Har Be Bar’s role as translator in the family, and life in America. Ya He Ma’s son Maung Maung and daughter Har Be Bar were in the front room during the interview. Her husband Ka Ma Din joined part way through the interview. Her daughter Fareda was in her bedroom until the interview concluded and we took pictures of the family. Reference: CD = Cami Dilg (Interviewer) HBB = Har Be Bar (Translator; Ya He Ma’s eldest daughter) YHM = Ya He Ma (Interviewee) KMD = Ka Ma Din (Interviewee’s husband) Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 2 F = Fareda (Ya He Ma’s youngest daughter) MM = Maung Maung (Ya He Ma’s son) DA = Deanna Allred (Recordist) DG = David Giles (Photographer) NOTE: The interview was conducted with an in-person interpreter. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [01:30] CD: Alright. Today is May 18th, 2015, and we are here in Ya He Ma’s home apartment. We are with the USU Voices project, and I guess we’ll re-introduce us: I’m going to be interviewing today; Deanna Allred is the recordist; and David Giles is the photographer, and with me is Har Be Bar, and she’s going to be translating; and this is [referring to Har Be Bar] Ya He Ma’s daughter, and Ya He Ma’s going to be the interviewee. Ok. We’ll just be asking one question at a time, and Har Be Bar’s going to be translating for us, so we want to get as much detail from you [Ya He Ma] as possible, so we will do it [the interview] kind of slow. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Nods in response.] CD: Ok. If you could tell me, what is your full name and birth year? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese] HBB: Full name is Ya He Ma. Then Birth date is January 1st, YHM: 1972. HBB: 1972. [Maung Maung is speaking in the background] CD: And what languages do you speak? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 3 YHM: Burmese HBB: Burmese CD: So tell me a little bit about your family. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. HBB: She has six peoples in her family: And then her oldest daughters got married. She moved out to Oregon; and then her, me, another daughter, is going to USU; and then her youngest, younger daughter going to high school; and the little one will be in school next year. CD: K. And could you tell me, or describe the ethnic or religious community of which you are apart? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] Muslim [Responding in Burmese.] HBB: Um just some kind of Muslim group. In a group. CD: Ok. Tell me about your birth country—where were you born and . . . ? KMD: [In the kitchen; begins participating in the conversation.] Burma [Responding in Burmese.] HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 4 YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um in Burma. She was born in Burma. And in Burma she had to work very hard to, like, get food and stuff. [05:05] CD: What did you do for work in Burma? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: She just uh, like, shew? Like sewing? Sew? And then her father work, like go to, go out and work. And didn’t get a lot of money. Yeah. She doesn’t, like, she was younger and then there’s no other jobs, so she did not work. CD: Hm. That makes sense. HBB: Um hm. CD: How many children were there in your family? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Six. CD: Six. And where do you fall? Are you the youngest? The middle? The oldest? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: She’s the middle. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 5 CD: The middle. YHM: Um hm. CD: How long, how long did you live in Burma? HBB: [Translating in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. HBB: Well she was born in 1972 and then 2000 . . . ? YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: 2000 she went to YHM: [Speaks. I think she says: “Mayanmar. Mayanmar.”] HBB: Refugee camp. YHM: Refugee camp. Um hm. HBB: So she don’t, she don’t know, like to guess how . . . ? YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Yeah. In 1972 to 2000. CD: Why did you leave Burma? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 6 HBB: She cannot live there anymore; there’s civil wars and the problems, so, so she have to move. CD: And what was your experience like leaving? Was it difficult HBB: [Begins translating in Burmese.] CD: or easy? HBB: Sorry [HBB and CD laugh because they started talking at the same time] CD: Pardon me. Pardon me. HBB: Ok. CD: Go [ahead.] Was it difficult or easy? Can you describe what your departure was like? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: It’s very difficult. CD: And why was it difficult? HBB: Um hm. CD: I’m sure there’s probably many ways that it was. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: It’s a difficult and then she had to go with across jungle. And then take a, like, in the city, kind of, well she take a car to, to get a ride, get a ride. And walking, and get a ride too. CD: Did you go with your whole family, or were you alone? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 7 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: With the family. CD: And where did you relocate to? Where did you move from Burma to? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Thai refugee camp. CD: K. What was your experience like living in the refugee camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] [10:13] HBB: Sometimes she just stay home, and then, there a group that give free foods. And then when the time comes, like, the people in, like Mae Sot, in Thailand, they open a job for, like, season. And then her husband and her go out work there, like, if they can. Um hm. CD: For work did you, did you still sew? Or did you do something else in the camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: In the camp, there is no jobs, so just sew a little. Not much. CD: How did you get the materials for you to sew? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 8 YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. She bought it. CD: She bought it. HBB: Um hm. CD: In the camp, or did you have to go outside the camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: Hm. HBB: Yeah, inside the camp. CD: Inside the camp. You said that sometimes you were given, the that the food that you got was free. What, what did you eat? Was it enough? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: It’s not enough. They just give, like, rice and oil. And for the, like, fish and meat and stuff she have to find a way to buy those things. CD: And the meat HBB: Um hm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 9 CD: and the fish would be purchased, HBB: Yeah CD: again, outside of the HBB: Um hm. CD: camp? CD: Ok. What about the medical care that you received in the camp? Tell me about that. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: There a hospital, and if you get sick you can go there HBB: [asks Ya He Ma in Burmese to clarify her statement.] YHM: Hm. HBB: yeah [confirms] for free. CD: And the hospital was HBB: Um hm. CD: in the camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Affirms.] HBB: Yeah. In the camp. CD: Did you have to go there often? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 10 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: No she didn’t ‘cause, uh um, [illegible] she didn’t have to go. CD: That’s good. CD: Did any of your children have to go there? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: No. CD: What about the school? I, I’m assuming you didn’t attend, but maybe you did, if not, could you tell me about, did your children go to school? What was that like? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. Well she didn’t attend to school, but her childrens they don’t have to go to school. It’s not like in here, if you want to you can go, and you don’t have to. CD: So, your children did not go to school? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yes. They did. CD: Ok, but it wasn’t required? HBB: Yeah, it wasn’t required. CD: And what were the, I’m going to follow that up with another question later, but [makes a notation in notebook to ask a follow-up question prompted by the previous one she just asked. Moving on down her list of questions:] what were the day-to-day living conditions? What was it like spending a day in the camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 11 YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] [15:02] HBB: She had to worry about the food, ‘cause it’s not enough, and then she has no money, so every day that she had to worry about money. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, because of the war, there is no work. And here, she can work, and then, if she want, like, clothing, she can go buy. She can go buy . . . Yeah, she got money. CD: Hm. That’s the difference. HBB: Um hm. CD: How many, because, you got married in the camp, um, how many children did you have while you were still living there in the Thai camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. She, she got married in Burma, and then, her childrens are all born in Burma. CD: Ohh. Ok. KMD: [Speaking in Burmese in the background.] CD: What about your religious holidays, or your worship, how could, how did that differ from being in Burma, and then the camp? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 12 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: There’s no difference, because with her people, her community, they did, like, the same thing. CD: Ok. HBB: And here also. It’s the same. They celebrate, the, the the religious holidays. CD: Um hm. What did your celebrations look like in the camp then? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in English and Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in English and Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. Yeah. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. Um, the religious month, she had to fast for a month, and then after that, she had to, like, cook for it—the holiday. And, and then the end of the holiday, she would, she would, like, kill a cow and then serve the meat. CD: Um hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 13 HBB: If, only if she had money to, to buy cow. [Har Be Bar and Cami laugh] CD: I was going to ask you, how difficult was it to get a cow? Did you sometimes have to go without a cow? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Well, YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Well, there’s people that who can buy cow, they will, like, give people that who don’t have, who can’t buy, so, they share meat. YHM: Um hm. CD: That’s very nice. HBB: Um hm. Yeah. CD: What was the political climate towards refugees, of the, yeah, towards refugees? Was it, does that make sense [asking Har Be Bar]? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 14 HBB: Yeah. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: He’s [Ka Ma Din] helping [laughs]. CD: That’s, that’s fine. [20:00] DG: Is that your dad? HBB: Yeah, that’s my dad. DA: What’s his name? HBB: Ka Ma Din. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 15 DA: Ka Ma Din? HBB: Um hm. Hm. CD: Nice to meet you? HBB: K-a, M-a, D-i-n [spelling his name]. HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] But the government there, uh, didn’t help at all. They just, like, looked down to, to them. DA: Hm. Um hm. HBB: Yeah, they didn’t help. At all. That’s what he’s trying to say. CD: Ok. That makes sense. Describe to me your feelings about, about safety in the camp. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Sometimes she feel like she’s not safe because um people might come to the camp and then burn the houses and then with the gun come, can come and shoot them. CD: Did you ever have this happen to you or see this happen to someone else? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese. (Ka Ma Din has)] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 16 HBB: Hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. It didn’t happen to them but they have seen that happen to others. DA: Hm. HBB: Yeah, the, they will come and kill and, like, shoot them, and then burn their houses. CD: How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: U.I. YHM: U.I. YHM: U.I. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: There is a group called the U.I. help the, the refugee camp, and then they would they announce them: “If, if you guys want to come to U.S. you have to register.” And then if you don’t want to then you don’t have to. So, that’s how they learned it. CD: Ok. How did you apply? Did you have any help? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: There was, there was a translator that helped them with how many families they have. And then, yeah, basically how to register, like, with the translator. CD: So what about your parents? Where, where did they live? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 17 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Her mom already passed away; only her dad lived in then Burma. CD: He’s in Burma still? HBB: Yeah. CD: And why is he still there? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. Well, he’s not in the camp. He just in Burma. And then he’s very old so he cannot come to U.S. CD: Maybe going back to this question about getting help to apply for the refugee camp. You said you had a translator. Describe for me the process? Was it difficult or easy? And how long did it take for the application to go through? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] [25:11] HBB: It took, it took like, three months, because there are a lot of people. And then they have to do the training to, like, how to get, when you get in the plane, what do you have to do, like, they give, like, training for everything; also use, using the bathroom too. Like, sort of that stuff. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 18 CD: So, preparing them culturally HBB: Yeah. Um hm. CD: for going to wherever they were going to. HBB: Um hm. CD: And where did those trainings take place? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, at the camp. CD: At the camp. Did the, who did, who conducted the training? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: There are people from the U.S., and, like Americans and Thai people too. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. In one training there are two people, like, one American and the one the who can speak English. Like the translator. CD: And if this is too personal [laughs], but you said that you had to be trained, like, things like, how HBB: Um Hm. CD: to use the bathrooms? HBB: Um Hm. CD: What is the, what’s the difference? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 19 HBB: Um, I know it so . . . [Har Be Bar does not need to ask her mother because she knows the answer to my question. CD: Ok. You go ahead. HBB: Um hm. Yeah, for that, in the camp we just only use the water. CD: Um Hm. HBB: And then here they use toilet paper. CD: Um Hm. HBB: So yeah, CD: Um Hm. HBB: we don’t, you guys don’t use water, so we trained like that. CD: Yeah, that’s true. Interesting. HBB: Um hm. Yeah. [all laugh] CD: I personally think it’s better to use water [all laugh] YHM: [speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [speaks in Burmese.] Yeah. CD: Alright. What other things, that you just didn’t know about before, or you know, for the training, can you think of any? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 20 KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, basically the training is for the plane. Like, inside of the plane you have to wear seatbelt. And then you cannot just walk around. You have to stay in the seat, and then if you need, like, help, and then you want to throw up, like, what do you need to do. CD: So, pretty standard though, I guess [laughs], HBB: [laughs] CD: for anybody who is a first-time flyer. HBB: Yeah [laughs]. [Cami and Har Be Bar laugh] CD: Alright. And how long were you in the Thai camp? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese] HBB: Seven years CD: Seven years. Wow. CD: Where did you first arrive in the U.S.? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Uh hm. Salt Lake City. CD: Salt Lake City? HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah then case, caseworker um, like, send them here [I am assuming she means Cache Valley], because they have job here for them. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 21 CD: How long were you in Salt Lake before you moved to Logan? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Six months. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese CD: Six months. What was, what was that first day, like in, in the United States, or that first um, first week, or the seven months? Could you tell me a bit about that? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese; laughs] [30:01] HBB: Well, um, like, the first week they slept day, and then, like, nighttime they will wake up and then cook and eat, [Har Be Bar, Ya He Ma, and Cami laugh] HBB: which is funny. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, because now it’s different time. CD: Um hm. HBB: It would be day here and then night over . . . Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 22 CD: Um hm. Um hm. Anything else you’d like to share [I meant anything else to add to my question I just posed, but Ya He Ma misunderstood me to mean that I was asking her if she wanted to keep interviewing]? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm hm. Would, what else do you have more questions? CD: What do I mean? HBB: Um hm. No. CD: Oh! HBB: What do you have, like, CD: Oh! For questions? HBB: left? CD: Um, we have a few more. HBB: Um hm. CD: Are you alright if we, if we ask some more or are you tired? [Cami laughs] HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah. CD: Ok. Um. You worked, you have a caseworker here, when you first arrived. Was he or she helpful? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, he’s helpful. CD: Hm. Did you get, did you receive aid from any, anyone else? A religious organization or a government organization? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 23 HBB: Um, like help from . . . ? CD: Help or aid. Yeah. HBB: Um hm. CD: Help. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, there was a religious group that came, and then give cloth and food. Then they also give their number. Like, if we need, we need help they can call. CD: Do you remember the religious group? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, he remember. It’s in still in Salt Lake. And then it’s at the Mosque called [illegible, she may be saying Khadeeja.] CD: Ok. Through the Mosque? HBB: Um hm. CD: Do you ever go back there to Salt Lake to visit that mosque? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 24 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah he did, like, once a year when the Eid comes. CD: Still do you? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: yes still. CD: Do you have friends that, or acquaintances there that you meet when you go back? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yes. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] CD: Was there anything that could have been improved? For those people that helped you, do you wish they would have done something else, or something more? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese]. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 25 KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Well, um, they don’t have to, like, improve, like, improve themselves. Um it’s enough from them. Like, they give free food and clothes. The shirts. Stuff. CD: So it felt like HBB: Yeah. CD: it it was enough? HBB: Um hm. Yeah, it was enough. And then they also, like, um, talk to them, like, don’t feel bad in this country, its, like, a good country. Then they, the people are in here, like, very nice. Like culturally. Yeah. CD: How long have you lived in Cache Valley, or Logan? YHM: [Responds in Burmese]. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese]. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] [35:02] HBB: Seven years. CD: Seven years [laughs]?! So the same amount of time that you spent, that you spent in the camp. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah. Um hm. CD: Wow. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 26 CD: What, what do you do here in, in Logan? What, what is it like for your family? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese]. HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese]. HBB: Um she’s working at Miller [known as the E. A. Miller Plant, or the JBS Plant. I’m not sure what the official name is; my research gave several names.]. And then also her husband work. Yeah, at the beginning only her husband work, and then now she work, just only, like, [Begins speaking in Burmese to her mother.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Like, yeah, almost a month. Like, nine, nine months. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Oh, not a month! A year! Yeah. CD: So just started? HBB: Yeah just . . . CD: This is your first year here? Working there? HBB: Um hm. HBB: No, like, no. [Begins speaking in Burmese to her mother.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: She work there like one, one year before. Yeah. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 27 HBB: And then she got pregnant, so she quit. And then now she started again. CD: Ohhh. Wow. CD: So what do you do at Miller? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese] HBB: Um, when they already take out the skin. And then she would, like, clean the body of the cow. David: Eew. DA: Um hm. CD: Wow. Hard work? YHM: Yeah. Hard. CD: Wow. How many uh . . . YHM: Hour? CD: Yeah. How many hours and how many cows do you do? Every hour? YHM: Today, [Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: Hm. HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: Hm. HBB: 1800 cows per day. And then HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 28 YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: seven and a half hours. CD: Hmm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: That’s a lot of cows YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Like, over a thousand cows. CD: Hm. DG: Wow. CD: Are you, do you work by yourself? Do you work with other women? Other men? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 29 HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Um hm. HBB: Oh with mens and womens around her. CD: Um hm. Is the job that you do typically done by women or men? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, that work it’s not that hard, so it’s for women. CD: Um hm. Are there many women that work at Miller? I guess compared to how many men are there? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah there a lot of womens, but mens are, like, more mens. DA: Um hm. Um hm. CD: Do you, do you ever, Oh sorry go ahead [I interrupted Har Be Bar here, but she acknowledged she had nothing more to say]! HBB: Um hm. CD: Do you ever see your husband at work? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: No. CD: No. You don’t . . . ? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 30 KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: It’s different times. CD: Ohh. So what . . . ? KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: He works more hour. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Like, nine hours a day. And then, yeah. And the lunch time is different. CD: Um hm. HBB: So they never see each other. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] [40:01] HBB: in the same. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: She work in hot department and then he work in cold department. CD: And what do you do there [asking Ka Ma Din]? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: He take out the, like, something from the skin. Not skin, but from the meat. CD: Um hm. DA: Um hm. HBB: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 31 KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um, like, three, like whole meat, in the minute. CD: Oh. Three, three from the knife? HBB: Yeah. Um hm. DA: Wow. CD: Three cuttings? HB: Yeah, three cuttings. CD: And because you work at, you’re working different shifts, do you, do you travel there together in the morning, or do, how do you get to work? KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah it’s different. Um, they go, like. They didn’t go together. He go with his car and then she go with other, like, coworker’s car. CD: And are, are they friends from, um, this housing area here that you go? Or does somebody pick you up from somewhere else? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, from, uh well, she live, like, very, pretty close from here. CD: Um hm. K. CD: Is this someone you met at work? Or knew before? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Mmm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 32 HBB: Yeah. She, she met her before she worked there. CD: Do you feel like, do you feel included in the Logan community? Do you feel like your family is accepted? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] [Maung Maung is talking in the background, as well as Ka Ma Din] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, they feel like part of the community. CD: Is there anything that the, the, that you wish the community would do to make you feel more welcome? Or things that you wish you could, or your family could, participate in that would, would, would help you feel more welcome? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 33 YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: Hm. HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um, well, she’s living here, it’s um, they feel like part of the community, and then they don’t have to like, they don’t have to improve. CD: Ok. HBB: Everything’s fine. CD: How, how is your home here different than the one in the Thai camp? Or in Burma? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: It’s different, like, way different. CD: Can you explain? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Well there . . . YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 34 HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Um, well, it’s, the house is made of um bamboo tree. And they don’t have couch and beds. And they only have to sleep on the floor with pillow. And with the, uh they make canopy too, because there are, like, bugs still. Yeah. [45:16] DA: That was my question about bugs. [Cami laughs] [The Muslim Call to prayer sounded from the computer in the room.] CD: Is it . . . ? David: Is it the call to prayer? YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Yes. CD: Should we . . . ? DA: Do you need us to go? HBB: Well, it’s ok. Well this time it’s fine. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Well, we are supposed to be, like, praying but DG: We, we can step outside if you need to, if you need us to. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 35 HBB: Well, when that come, we have to listen, DA: Ok. HBB: so you can stay here. CD: We will, we will stay if that’s alright. HBB: Um hm. [Speaks in Burmese.] [Maung Maung is speaking in the background while the call to prayer is taking place.] HBB: Ok it’s done now. CD: Thanks. HBB: Um hm. CD: Could you tell me about your experiences with your landlord? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Um hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um, well, she don’t have much experience with him because she lived in another apartment for six years, so. Just only, about . . . YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: a year in here. DG: Ok. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 36 CD: How, how was the landlord in the other place you were living for six years? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: She’s a YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, she’s good. Yeah, she’s helpful. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] [50:01] HBB: Um, it’s not landlord. Like a manager. CD: Manager. HBB: Yeah. CD: Mm hm. HBB: We never see landlord, landlord CD: Ok. HBB: in that apartment. CD: K. Ummm, what would you like the people of Logan to know about you and your family? Your ethnic group? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: Hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Well, before they do, but now they don’t because, um well, they can handle, like, their situation them, themselves, because now, like, I can help them with the letters that come. Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 37 CD: Oh the, the letters in the mail? HBB: Yeah. Mm hm. CD: Oh. Like the bills and HBB: Yeah. Bills and stuff. CD: everything like that? So, you don’t need, they don’t need any help? HBB: No. No Help. CD: Ok. Would you, would you like to go back to Burma? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: She would just like to visit. She don’t like to go live there, because, well, she has a father, so she would like to go visit. CD: I see. Do you ever get to talk to him or contact him? Your father? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, she called and . . . YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: And she sometimes send money to him. CD: What are you most proud of? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 38 YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. Um, they’re very happy that they could come here. And then people are here, like, very fair, fairly. And then the policy, yeah the policy, they like the policy here. Yeah, because people are here don’t look down to them. Then, yeah, from camp or Burma, well the people, like, looked down. They don’t have money or anything. It’s way different. CD: What are your dreams for your future? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Her dream is to buy a house. And then his dream is, like, to raise his, his childrens. Like, finish college. Yeah, that’s pretty much it. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 39 CD: K. Those are, I’m done with my questions. Is there anything else you’d like to share with us? That I haven’t asked you about? [55:06] HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. Hm. [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: She don’t have anything to say, but, for him, he’s happy that you guys came and asked these questions. He’s very proud of them. CD: We’re very grateful that you gave, that you let us. DA: Thank you. CD: Do any of you, I’m going to ask my colleagues if they have any follow-up questions from HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] CD: from the . . . DA: I do. Do have questions? DG: Ah yes, I do. DA: Want to go first? DG: Ok. CD: So, go ahead, David. DG: So, first, we spoke to Har Be Bar this morning [during Har Be Bar’s interview], and she said that you, you organized the dishes [in the kitchen; the dishes are arranged in a pattern for beauty; see photos.]? We, we it looked, it looked very, like DA: It was beautiful. DG: Yeah. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] DG: Now um, let me see. My next question is, I noticed you have Arabic posters on the walls. Can you read Arabic? Or is it just for decoration? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 40 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Well, yeah they know how to read. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Um hm. KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] DG: Is he, is he reading the text? HBB: Hm? DG: Is, is he reading the text or . . . ? WBB: Well, that text is, it says, “Allah.” It’s, like, our god. DA: Um hm. Um hm. DG: I see. HBB: Um hm. That one is Mecca. It’s in Saudi Arabia. DA: Right. DG: Um hm. CD: Yeah. DG: K. Awesome. Um, let me see. You said now that, you said now that you’re in this apartment you have a couch and a bed. Um, do you prefer sitting on the couch, sleeping on the bed? Or do you prefer what you had in Burma? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 41 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Uh, yeah, she prefer a couch and beds. DG: Ok. Ok now, uh, my last question: You said when you came here you got to a, you were given a number to call if you ever needed help with something? And, I’m just curious, did you ever call that number? And if so, what happened? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: No. He never called. DG: Ok. Those are my questions. DA: Ok. Where in Oregon does your other daughter live? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: Portland. HBB: Portland. YHM: Portland. Portland. KMD: Portland. Portland. HBB: Portland. DA: Portland! HBB: Portland. DA: Yeah. Oh yay! CD: I have family there. [all laugh] DA: I love Portland. CD: My dad is from Oregon. DA: Yeah. Is she happy there? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 42 YHM: Yeah. DA: Yes. She’s likes it there. Ok. Who has bigger bugs? Burma or America? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 43 HBB: There’s a jungle, so it’s bigger over there. Here, like, they never see the big [illegible (bird?)]. DA: How big is the biggest bug? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Hm. YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] [1:00:10] HBB: Bird [Laughs] DA: Yeah HBB: [laughs] Not bird. Not bird. [Har Be Bar and Deanna laugh.] YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.] HBB: Like you mean, like what kind of, like, DA: Yeah. Like, HBB: bugs DA: yeah. So the jungle I would think Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 44 HBB: Um hm. DA: has different, different animals and different HBB: Um hm. DA: insects. You know? What were they like? They, I mean, ‘cause you say like you had to have a, a bug shield or something? HBB: Um hm. DA: So from what? Like what? Little ones? Big ones? HBB: Yeah! Um we, we had the bug, like, the canopy? DA: Yeah! Canopy! HBB: Yeah. Um it’s for the little bugs. DA: The little, like, mosquitos and ? HBB: Yeah the mosquito. DA: Yeah. HBB: Yeah. DA: Ok. Um. Ok. This is, it’s ok if this is a question that we don’t want to talk about, but, in America women usually live longer than men. But I hear a lot of you say, “My mother has passed away.” Is there a reason for that? A reason why? It’s just different. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] [1:02:06.4] First file ends [00:01] Second file begins: KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 45 HBB: Because there are, like, no good hospitals DA: No hospitals HBB: and then by giving birth DA: Um hm. HBB: they pass away mostly. DA: Um hm. That’s what I wondered. Ok. I think that’s all of my questions. CD: I guess I had one more [laughs]. [Har Be Bar laughs] CD: Because we talked about [laughs] furnishings in the home, HBB: Um hm. CD: I know you all have mats like this. HBB: Um hm. CD: Do you get them from the Asian market? Or where, where do you get these mats from? DA: They’re beautiful. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah, from KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Asian Store. CD: Um hm. ‘Cause I’ve seen them down there [West Valley area in a Polynesian store], HBB: Um hm. CD but I didn’t know [laughs] HBB: Yeah, we all have it. DA: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 46 HBB: Each of our [selves? Illegible]. DA: Yeah. It’s very beautiful. HBB: Um hm. CD: Do you have mats like, like this in Burma? Or the Thai camp? Or did you just start getting them . . . ? DA: ‘Cause you came here? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Yeah. We do have in Burma. And in the camp. DA: Um hm. So this is traditional? HBB: Yeah. Yeah, traditional. CD: Beautiful. Alright. Ok, well that, that concludes our interview. Thank you DA: Yeah, CD: very much. DA: Thank you very much. CD: We have forms. DA: Yeah. CD: Yeah a couple forms DA: Um hm. CD: to sign. Release forms. We’re hoping that you’ll, we can use this information. We’ll put it in the Utah State library—in the archives. And we are also going to create an exhibit about your community. HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] CD: And we hope that you can attend the event? This is the invitation. Um, I’ll put my phone number on the back if you need any help getting there—if you need a ride there. We’d like you to bring your family and your friends if you . . . Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 47 HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] DG: Now uh, as you guys are filling out the forms and stuff, would it be ok if I took a few pictures? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] KMD: [Responds in Burmese.] DG: Ok. [All laugh. Ya He Ma seems a little nervous—Worried about how she looks.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] CD: That’s alright. DA: You look beautiful. [Cami laughs] DA: You look beautiful. So shall I, can I stop the recording? Are we done? CD: Oh, I guess I did have, I have one more question, DA: Ok good. CD: I do DA: Um hm. CD: Do you, do you still sew at all for, for your family, or do you sew, sew, um, for yourself [I interrupt Har Be Bar’s translation]? HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] CD: Sorry HBB: [Translates in Burmese.] YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] HBB: Well now she start working so she didn’t sew that much. DA: Um hm. CD: Alright, now I’m done. DA: Ok. We will stop the recording now. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ya He Ma Page 48 [03:14]
Ya He Ma, 1972-;
Giles, David, 1986-;
Har Be Bar, 1995-;
Dilg, Cami, 1986-;
234621 Bytes
bur; mya; eng;
Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah
Interview with Ka Sin, Burmese Muslim Refugee. 2015-05-17
Burmese Muslim refugee; Family; Immigrant, Tradition, Cache Valley, Utah; Logan, Utah;
Ka Sin and his family live in a different apartment complex than our other interviewees. He works at JBS meat packing plant. His family includes his wife Ser Geda; daughter Kem Pu, 16 yrs; son Zat No 10 yrs; son Mo 20 yrs; and son Myo 14 yrs.
Ka Sin, 1967-;
Allred, Deanna, 1965-;
oral histories (document genres);
60429828 Bytes
bur; kar; eng;
Burma; Thailand; Japan; California, Utah;
48847104 Bytes
2010-2019; 21st century;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Ka Sin Present: Deanna Allred, David Giles, Cami Dilg, Ka Sin, Har Be Bar, Kem Pu[?] (Ka Sin’s daughter), Zat No (Ka Sin’s son), Mo (Ka Sin’s son), Ser Geda (Ka Sin’s wife), Myo (Ka Sin’s son) Place of Interview: Ka Sin’s home, Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 17, 2015 Language(s): Burmese Translation: Interviewer: Deanna Allred Interpreter: Har Be Bar Recordist: David Giles Photographer: Cami Dilg Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 20, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Brief Description of Contents: Ka Sin talks about his journey from Burma, to a Thailand refugee camp, to Japan, then New York, then California, and finally Utah. He talks about working and learning English in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then later moving to Logan, Utah. He talks about his life during the war in Burma and in the refugee camp in Thailand. He discusses his life in America, and the way his children are growing up here, versus the life they may have had in Burma. Reference: DA = Deanna Allred DAI = Deanna Allred’s words interpreted by translator KS = Ka Sin KSI = Ka Sin’s words interpreted by translator DG = David Giles DGI = David Giles’ words interpreted by translator KP = Kem Pu ZN = Zat No M = Mo Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 2 MY = Myo NOTE: [You will have to modify this as appropriate—whether using CommGap or in-person interpreter.] The interview was conducted with CommGap Interpretive Services; the interpreter joined the interview via a cell phone. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [Part 1 of 2 – 00:01] DA: Yeah, will you introduce who is here with us? I’d love them to stay. DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: His daughter and then his youngest son. DA: Youngest son? KSI: Um-hmm. DA: [Speaking to Ka Sin’s daughter] And what is your name? KP: Kem Pu[?] DA: Kem Pu? How old are you? KP: I am 16. DA: [Speaking to Ka Sin’s son] And what is your name? ZN: Zat No. KS: Zat No. DA: Zat No – can you spell that? ZN: Z-A-T N-O. DA: N-O. DG: Okay; exactly like it sounds, actually. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 3 DA: And how old are you? ZN: Ten. DA: You’re ten. DG: [Speaking to Kem Pu] Okay; are you getting your driver’s license by chance? KP: Yeah. DA: Yeah? DG: Cool. DA: [Speaking to Kem Pu] What school do you go to? KP: Logan High. DA: Logan High? Good. My daughter went there for a little while. [Speaking to Zat No] And what school do you go to? ZN: Wilson. DA: Wilson? Yes. DG: Okay. DA: Okay, good. DG: Would it be okay if we closed the window? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DA: It’s just the sound – for the sound. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DG: Okay. DA: Sorry; will that make it uncomfortable? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 4 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Do you guys want him to open the fan? DG: Let’s try it. Yeah, I don’t think it will be a problem, but let’s try it. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DA: Okay. DG: Alright, so let’s begin the tag. DA: Okay. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: I’m going to look at Cami’s notes about this. I liked what you did there. [Soft talking in the background between field school students.] DG: Okay, so I think – DA: Okay. DG: These are the questions that you want. DA: I’ve got the questions here. Alright, my name is Deanna Allred. KS: Yes. DA: We are here at the home of Ka Sin, a Burmese Muslim refugee that we’re doing interview for the “Voices 2015: Refugees in Cache Valley” (here, in Logan). I’m also here with Har Be Bar (who is our translator), and David Giles (who is our recordist), and Cami Dilg (who will be taking pictures). We are also here with Ka Sin’s daughter and son – are you another son? ??: I’m his son, yeah. DA: And what’s your name? M: Mo. DA: Mo? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 5 DAI: Mo. DA: Okay; how old are you, Mo? M: Twenty. DA: Twenty? Okay. So, and I saw your wife here too? Yeah, your wife was here. And what’s her name? KS: Ser Geda. DA: Ser Geda? KS: S-E-R – KSI: S-E-R – DA: S-E-R? KS: G-E – DA: G-E? KS: D-A. DA: D-A? KS: Yeah. DA: And this is your wife? KS: Yeah. DA: Thank you for letting us come. I’m going to try to translate a little slower – as I’ve listened, some of it’s gone a little fast and we’ve not gotten it all. DAI: Um-hmm? DA: So I’ll try to just translate slower – just a couple sentences at a time – and then I think that will go a little better. DAI: Okay. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 6 DA: So you can explain to him that we will probably be going a couple sentences at a time. [03:36] DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DA: And it is Sunday, May 17th, 2015. We have another son? KS: Yeah, Myo. DA: What’s your name? MY: Myo. DA: Myo? MY: Yeah. DA: How do you spell that? MY: M-Y-O. DA: And how old are you? MY: Fourteen. DA: Fourteen? You have a great family. KS: [Laughs] DAI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.] DA: Yeah, this is great. Okay, did I get all the tag? DG: I think so. DA: Okay. So we are just going to start the interview. What is your full name and birth year? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: K-A S-I-N. DA: Um-hmm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 7 KS: Yeah. Birthday – December 18, 1967. DA: Fifty-seven? KS: Sixty. KSI: 1967. DA: Sixty-seven; okay, good. What languages do you speak? DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: Burmese and Karen. KSI: Burmese and Karen. DA: And Karen? Good. Tell me about your family? DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: Yeah. [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He has a total family of six people in the family: four childrens, and him and his wife. DA: Um-hmm. Describe for me your religious community, your ethnic community; describe for me what it is for you to be a Burmese Muslim? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Living here it’s the same, but the ethnic group and religious group is a little different. DA: It’s a little different? KSI: Yeah. DA: In what way? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: How do we like practice the religion. DA: Right, um-hmm. Is there a place where you can go to practice your religion? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 8 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Here they have it, but it’s a different language – DA: Oh, right. KSI: But in Salt Lake they do have it in the same language. KS: Yeah. DA: In Salt Lake? KSI: Yeah. DA: Okay. Tell me about Burma? You were born in Burma? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: What would you like to know about Burma? DA: Is it hot? Is it beautiful? KS: Ah, yeah. KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [07:28] KSI: There are three seasons – DA: Um-hmm. KSI: Yeah, summer, rainy, and foggy. DA: Summer, rain and foggy – that’s good. We haven’t heard that before. How long did you live there? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 9 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: Like 21 years. DA: Uh-huh? Twenty-one years? KS: Maybe 25 year. DA: Maybe 25; yes? Why did you leave? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s hard to live because there are civil wars going around, and they are like ethnic groups (like Karen group) that didn’t get along with – DA: That didn’t get along with the government? KS: Yeah. DA: Or each other? KSI: Yeah, with the government, with the soldiers, and with the Karen ethnic group. DA: Okay, okay. So what was that experience like – leaving Burma? What was that like to leave your country, leave your home? DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He felt very bad, like because at first he had some educations in the city, and then he had to move because in Burma there are all still civil war. He felt very bad. DA: Yeah, I’m sure; I’m sure. Where did you relocate first? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: At first Burma to Thailand refugee camp. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 10 DA: Yeah. And then where? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He relocated first in the Thai city for about three years and it did not work out, so he had to move to a refugee camp. DA: Um-hmm, okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp? [11:07] DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They are like – KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: A lot of different peoples – DA: Um-hmm? KSI: And different situation – like sometimes they are same level. DA: Yeah. Describe to me what you ate (the food), what was the medical care like? If you got sick, what would happen? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They gave free food from rice, oil, salt, and they don’t do meat or other stuff – because he also want to eat those meat – DA: Yeah. But there wasn’t any? KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: He had to find a way – DA: To get food? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 11 KS: Yeah. KSI: All the medical care out there are free. DA: Was it easy to get to? Was it close? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s not that easy to go to the hospital because no transportation – DA: Right. KSI: I have to walk. DA: And it was big – it was a ways away? KSI: Um-hmm. DA: Yeah. KSI: Like 15 minutes. DA: Yeah. Describe your work and school, there in the refugee camp, for you. DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: For the school, there is no school for an adult (like him). And then a job – he had to go outside of the camp and work for it. DA: Um-hmm. Tell me what your life was day-to-day; so you would get up about what time? You would eat breakfast, or – tell me what a typical day was like for you. DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He would wake up like early in the morning (like four) – DA: Um-hmm? And then that’s – what time would you go to bed at night? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 12 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like nine to ten. DA: Yeah, yeah; okay. What did you do for work in the camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [15:15] KSI: He help with the road – DA: Okay? KSI: Fix the road, and also the stables[?] – DA: Okay. Do you still get up at four? KS: Huh? DA: Do you still get up so early? DAI: Now? DA: Yeah. DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Sometimes; and sometimes earlier than that. DA: Really? DG: Wow. DA: Tell me about the holidays (or the celebrations) that you celebrated in the camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 13 KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah. He wants to talk about the Eid. DA: Uh-huh, yes? KSI: In the morning he will wake up and go to mosque and pray, and then he will find new clothes for his children to wear. DA: Um-hmm. Someone else had said you needed a new outfit for Eid, is that right? KSI: Um-hmm, yeah. DA: Yeah. Okay, what was the government like – how did the government behave with the refugees? What was the climate there? Was it helpful? Was it combative? How helpful was the government when you were in the refugee camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] DA: This would have been Thailand I guess, yeah. KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he don’t know about the government because he don’t see it; but there is a sharing[?] group that helped. And then sometimes they are good, sometimes they are very bad peoples. If you want to go out and work, they close the gate – they never let him go out. And then he would find a way to get out from the gate and then go find job. And then once he came back the soldier will stop him and then take some money. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: Why wouldn’t they want you to leave to go work? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They thought that they already gave free food to the refugees, and then they thought that it’s enough for them. DA: Rice, but no meat? KSI: Yeah. DA: Was enough? Okay. Did you feel safe in the camp? Did you feel safe for you, and safe for your family? Was there safety there? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 14 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [20:45] KSI: It’s not safe because the refugee camp in Burma – it’s very close; sometimes the Burmese government will come and shoot and burn their houses. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm; we’ve heard that story before, yeah. KSI: They want control the camps – DA: Yeah, and it was very dangerous. KSI: Um-hmm. DA: Yeah. How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: There are a group that would take care of the camp that would come and let them know – like, “You can go register for the American, for Denmark, for Australia.” And then he – yeah, from there he come here. DA: Okay. Who helped you apply? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Thai also helped, he don’t know exactly – DA: Um-hmm? KSI: Yeah, Thai – that group also help – it’s called like OPE – DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 15 KSI: OPE. DA: Tell me about coming to the U.S. – I’m sure that was a lot – very emotional – to leave; I’m sure it was scary. Tell me about when you came to the U.S. – where did you come first? What was that first day like? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [23:50] KSI: It’s very emotional because totally like different people. In the camp, like people are not like human [laughs]. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. KSI: Yeah, because they are all dirty. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. Where did you first land? Where did you first come? Where was your first stop here? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: First, Thai, Bangkok (bigger city) – DA: Yeah. KSI: And then to – where was it? KS: Japan. KSI: To Japan, and to New York, to California, and then to Salt Lake. DA: Did you live in Salt Lake for awhile at first, or did you come right to Logan? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He was in Salt Lake about one year – DA: Um-hmm? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 16 KSI: And then he also work at DI. His wife work as a babysitter to other people houses. DA: Um-hmm, good; good. So if you worked at the DI, did you get help from any churches or any other organizations in the U.S.? And what about – what was helpful, what wasn’t helpful about your assistance? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: The church helped – did the most. DA: How could that be improved? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] DA: What improvements could we make? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: DI help a lot with teaching English. He can only work for a year, and for the improvement – it’s not – he don’t need that much improvement because he think that it’s kind of enough. DA: It was enough? Okay; that’s good to know. How long have you lived here, in Logan? [27:44] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: About six years. DA: Yeah? KS: Yeah. DA: What do you do here? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 17 KSI: He work at Miller. DA: At Miller? Um-hmm. KS: Yeah. DA: What is it like for you and your family to live here, in Logan? Is it a good place, you know, do you feel accepted by the community? Do you feel the schools are good and helpful? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Compared to the camp it’s a very good place here; the community is also good – he can make friends easily. DA: Um-hmm. Do you like working at Miller’s? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] DA: Is that a good thing? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He can’t say, because he don’t know if he like or not because he have to work. DA: Yeah, you have to work – it doesn’t matter if he likes it or not – KSI: Yeah. DA: Yeah, that makes sense. What would make you feel more at home here, in Logan, for your family and for you? DAI: What was that question again? DA: What would make him feel more at home here, in Logan? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 18 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Now he don’t feel like this is his home because he is just – only him working, and then he have a lot of children. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. So he does feel like this is his home, or he doesn’t? KSI: He doesn’t. DA: He doesn’t? Why? What could we do – what would need to change for him to feel at home? Or where would he feel at home? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Government help him, but he know that he have to work for himself. And also, in the future, his son and wife maybe if they could help him work, so that way he could buy a house – DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Is there anything specific – like would it be helpful if there were more cultural events? Does he feel like he has a community here that assists him and helps him, you know, if he has to go to the grocery store or get gas, or whatever – you know, is there anything that we can do to help him feel more at home? Or is it just a language barrier, you know? I mean, what sorts of things would help him feel more at home? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] [32:26] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he feel like – yeah, if they would help he would feel like he is part of the community. DA: Okay, okay; great. Tell me what is the difference between your home here, and your home in the refugee camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s a big difference as like brown and the sky. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Do you have a good experience with your landlord? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 19 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he has a good experience. If he need help he can call them – DA: And they’re very helpful? KSI: Yeah, they are. DA: That’s good; that’s good to know. What would you like the people of Logan to know about you? And then what would you like them to know about your family? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like to let everyone know he don’t have much time – DA: Um-hmm? KSI: And then for his kids – like their friends, they could tell by themselves. DA: If you had more time, what would you want to do? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [35:48] KSI: Once he was younger, he always interested in English, he always want to like, know. And now if he have time, he would like to take classes. DA: Learn English? KSI: Yeah. DA: If they came to Miller’s at lunch hour a couple of days a week and taught English, would you be able to go to those English classes? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 20 KSI: At Miller, there is no time because he only get 30 minutes of lunch time – DA: Oh. KSI: And then after that he have to go to use the restroom. DA: Yeah, yeah – just take care of yourself. KS: Yeah. KSI: Yeah. DA: Um-hmm. That makes sense. Would you like to go back to Burma? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Well he would like to go back because he has parents – his father (who is unhealthy), but he cannot go back now: his childrens are still young, and money problems. DA: Um-hmm. Can you communicate with your father? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he can communicate; and he also send like $100-200 a year. DA: Um-hmm, to them; does it help? KSI: Yeah. DA: It helps them? Do you send pictures to each other? You know, does your father know what your family looks like in pictures? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: There was a friend who went back to Burma, and then he send one picture, and now he don’t know how to send it. DA: Um-hmm; because he’s not there anymore? KSI: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 21 DA: What are you most proud of? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [39:35] KSI: He is very proud of his childrens that come here and live their life; he can’t imagine like, seeing his childrens, like in the camp working in the jungle. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. What are your dreams for your future, and the future of your family? What are your dreams and what’s the dreams for your family? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He don’t have his own dreams for himself, but he do have a dreams for his childrens to like grow up and get better jobs (not like him). He would like to buy a house here for his family. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. That’s good. Is there anything that I haven’t asked, that you would like me to know? Are there any other questions; is there anything you want me to know that I haven’t asked? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: If you like, he can talk about his experience more. DA: Yeah, yeah; I would like to hear more about your experiences. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 22 DAI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [43:27] KSI: In Burma, in the city, he lived with his family there (five people in the family) – [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He is the middle one. When he was younger he don’t have to do any work, and then when he get older he had to work. And then his older brother, like somehow with the soldier, got to refugee camp. DA: So where is his brother now? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Still in Thailand. DA: Still in Thailand? KSI: Oh no, Burma. DA: In Burma? So not in the refugee camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: No. DA: No? Okay. That’s all of my questions. David or Cami, do you have any questions? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 23 DG: Yes, I did. Let me see. So you said that when you first left Burma you tried to move to a city in Thailand? Can you tell us a little more about that, and what that was like trying to live in a city? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s not in the big city; it’s just like in the kind of city in the jungle, so like a lot of creatures. DG: Okay. So why did you leave the city? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: There was only three months of work in a year, so it’s not enough. And then he cannot go back to Burma, so he had to leave. DA: Go back. DG: Okay. DA: Do you talk about this much with your kids – about your experiences in Burma? Do they know? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He did not talk about it because he don’t want his childrens feel like sorry or feel bad, and then feel fear. DA: Um-hmm. DG: Now just one more question (for me): you mentioned that you were having a hard time sending pictures to your family? Do you need help figuring out how to do that, or is there some kind of problem just getting it to your family? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 24 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [47:30] KSI: Yeah, he would need help with it. DA: Okay. Does your father have a computer? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: No. DG: Okay, yeah; I know how to like send pictures through email, but if he doesn’t have a computer, that’s going to be difficult. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. DGI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.] DG: If you like, I can show you how to do that when we’re finished today. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [Laughs] KSI: Well they don’t even have computers, so – DA: He doesn’t have a computer, so it wouldn’t help? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DG: Well I do know that if you can send him a letter, I know you can take your photos to like, I think Wal-Mart with print them out for you, so you can you know, just put them in a letter and mail them. I haven’t had to do that in a long time, but I think Wal-Mart would be able to help. CD: I think it’s more of a problem of a physical address getting it – DG: Ah. CD: To him. DA: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 25 DG: Okay, I missed that detail. DGI: Yeah. [Laughs] [Repeating statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DA: Cami, did you have any questions? CD: Yes, I’m going to move a little bit closer to the microphone. We’ve interviewed some other people that were also in the refugee camp, and they mentioned (like you did) the need to obtain new clothing for Eid. I’m wondering where you would get the new clothing from? CDI: In the camp? CD: Yeah, to celebrate. Yes, in the camp. CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He had to find money earlier, yeah, and then he would buy it for them. CD: And would the clothing be purchased outside of the camp, or inside the camp? CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Inside of the camp. Inside of the camp. CD: I wasn’t sure, maybe you picked up on this – are both of your parents alive, and they are still in the camp, or just your father? CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They are both alive, but not in the camp – in Burma. DA: In Burma; and it’s hard to get the things to Burma. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 26 CD: So you have family members still in Burma – are they more safe or less safe than if they were in the refugee camp? [50:53] CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They don’t have to worry about their lives; because they are old, when the civil war is coming the soldier won’t take them because they cannot work anymore. DA: So they’re older – KSI: Yeah. DA: And so they’re safer? KSI: Um-hmm, they’re safer. DG: That’s a terrible way to be safe. DA: Um-hmm. DG: I have just one more question. When you left your home in Burma, and then when you left the camps, did you have any of your children with you at that time? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: When he come to Thailand, he had to walk like three days and three night. He is not married yet; he got married in Thai camp. DA: In Thai camp. KSI: Um-hmm. So once he leave Thailand with his children. DG: What was that like, having to move to a new place with little kids? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s not that hard, he just want like all together safe, and get whatever he want to do. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 27 DG: Okay. Those are all the questions I have. DA: Do your children participate at school in other things? You know, do you go to the school to the things that they’re active in? DAI: Here? DA: Yeah, here in Logan? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he don’t participate, but when his children still go to school he force them to go to school. And then only his wife participate in like parent-teacher conferences – DA: Conferences; yeah, that makes sense. Do you like American food? [54:29] KS: Hmm? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [Laughing] KSI: He like hamburger – DA: A hamburger? KSI: But it’s kind of expensive for him. DA: It is expensive; it is expensive, yeah. KS: The pizza a lot. KSI: Pizza – KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: He says there it’s less expensive: he can buy a box and they’re whole family can eat. DA: Yeah, pizza – everybody loves pizza! [Laughter] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 28 KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: If he only have to eat American food, it will be more expensive – DA: Yeah, yeah. Do you grocery shop in Salt Lake, like most of your community does? Do you have to go to Salt Lake to get your groceries? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah. KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like two months. DA: Yeah, yeah; where is that grocery store? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He bought rice here, and in Salt Lake – I don’t even know the address – DA: Yeah? KSI: Like Redwood Road. DA: What’s the name of the store? KSI: There are like Cambodian store – DA: Cambodian store? KS: Chinese. KSI: Pakistan and Chinese, I think. DA: Yeah. I’m sorry you have to go so far. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Well he had to go buy like half of the food over there, and then half of the food here. DA: Here? Where do you like to shop here? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 29 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like Smith’s. DA: Smith’s – that’s where we all go, yeah. [Laughter] Good; good. I don’t know that I have any more questions. You have been very delightful. Your family is beautiful. DG: Thank you. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: Thanks. DA: So we just have some forms to sign. Oh – DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: This just says we can use the interview for the presentation. DAI: Oh, this is already signed. DA: Oh yeah, yeah; sorry. Yeah, I can’t give you that one [laughs]. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: Yeah; this just says that we can use the recording: it will be stored at Utah State University. And then do you mind if we take pictures? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] [57:58] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 30 KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, you can take pictures. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: [Responding in Burmese.] DG: And we do need you to fill out all the blanks, and we need to talk about that last one a little bit – so when you’re done with the rest, we’ll talk about it. [Background discussion between the folks present; both in English and Burmese.] Okay, do we want to end the tape? DA: So we’re just making sure we have consent to use the audio tape and the pictures in the Special Collections, and he understands. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah. DA: Yep. KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: Oh, we don’t need that one. [Discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese.] KSI: Is it in English? [More discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese.] KSI: I can’t read Burmese [laughs]. DG: Oh, you can’t? KSI: I can’t. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 31 DA: It’s beautiful; I mean, look how pretty it is. Do your children – do you read Burmese? Do you speak much Burmese? [Discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese as they fill out the information and release forms.] CD: I’m just going to take a few photos to make sure that the light is okay, if that’s alright? DG: And email, if you have one. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: No, he doesn’t have email, so – KS: Is that finished? DG: That last one is – I would love if you could translate for me – that last blank is restrictions: just if there is something you don’t want us to do, you can write it there. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DG: So if you don’t want us to share your name, or share your photo, or something like that. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DA: Okay, this is the celebration – I know it’s in English, but maybe your kids could translate that for you. This is what – thank you – this is where we will be showing the photos and the presentation that we put together for the community. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] [End part 1 of 2 – 60:02] [Part 2 of 2 – 00:01] KS: If he is, he will come. DA: Okay, good. Thank you. [More background discussion with the folks present.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 32 [Speaking to Ka Sin’s child] So will you be a senior next year, or a junior? A senior? And how do you like Harry Potter? ZN: It’s a great story. DA: It’s a great story; yeah, it’s my favorite [laughs]. CD: You don’t mind if I take some photos? DG: Oh, the recording is still going. DA: The recording needs to – yeah, we’re done with the recording. Thank you. DG: Alright, we are done with the interview. [End Part 2 of 2 – 00:50]
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Burmese Muslim Refugees
Interview with Ka Mar, a Burmese Muslim refugee on May 15, 2015. Also present, Ka Mar's mom, Khin Mar Cho, his wife and daughter. We are at their apartment in Logan, Utah.
Ka Mar, 1988
Dilg, Cami 1986
Giles, David 1986
Allred, Deanna, 1965
54526464 Bytes
bur, mya, eng
Burma, Thailand
62731776 Bytes