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Interview transcript with Eh Htoo on May 16, 2015 in Hyrum, Utah.
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Title
Interview transcript with Eh Htoo on May 16, 2015 in Hyrum, Utah.
Description
Interview with Eh Htoo about his life as a refugee in Thailand, serving as a porter in the Burmese military, leaving home, and immigrating to the United States.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 1
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): Eh Htoo
Present: Wes Van de Water, Eh Htoo, Chit Moe, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill
Place of Interview:
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015
Language(s): Karen
Translation:
Interviewer: Wes Van de Water
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Meagan Gill
Photographer: Bethany Hanks
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 19, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water, May 23, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Eh Htoo talks about his life being born into war in the Karen state in Burma. He describes his life as a teenager: his father dying, and then being recruited as a porter for the Burmese military, and his subsequent escape into a refugee camp (Mae La) in Thailand. He talks about his life in Mae La camp: going to school and working to collect bamboo, before moving to the United States (first Salt Lake City, Utah, then Cache Valley, Utah).
Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator
EH = Eh Htoo
EHI = Eh Htoo’s words interpreted by translator
BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator
CM= Chit Moe
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 2
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us – oh, sorry; first off it is May 16th, 2015 (I almost said 2005)
[Laughter]
WV: It is six o’clock; we are here meeting with Eh Htoo. My name is Wes Van de Water, I’ll be doing the interview. Meagan Gill is recording, and Bethany Hanks is our photographer. And our translator for this interview is Chit Moe.
Okay, so Eh Htoo, if you wouldn’t mind, could you tell us your full name and the year that you were born?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: My name is Eh Htoo, and I was born in 1983.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And he is not sure what date (or days) he was born, but he only know –
WV: Knows the year?
EHI: Yeah.
WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us a bit about your family, where you’re from.
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: I came from Karen state (which is in Burma), but my family, my relatives – they are all in Burma right now, in Karen state.
WV: So your family is still in Burma then?
EH: Not Burma, Karen state.
EHI: It’s in Karen state, but it’s in Burma country.
WV: Oh, okay; got you – sorry, so your family is still over in Karen? So if your family is still in Karen, how did you wind up here in the United States?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 3
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So I became a refugee twice, based on my experience: once when I was born, and the other one was – which he hasn’t talked about it yet. Okay.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: [Responding in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Oh, okay. So ever since he was born – no, I was born in 1983; ever since I was born, there was a war between Burmese military and the Karen military. I automatically became a refugee and went to a refugee camp ever since I was born. And in 1985, I came back to my Karen state –
EH: Ninety-five.
EHI: Oh, in 1985?
EH: Ninety-five.
EHI: 1995, I’m sorry. In 1995, I came back to my country because I heard there was peace, and it’s better to live in there. So I love my country, that’s why I want to go back.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So after I went back to my country (which is in Karen state), it wasn’t what I was expecting: there wasn’t any peace, and there was still war going on. And when I was 13 years old I became a soldier.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Okay, so not a soldier, but I was – [speaking in Karen]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Actually not a soldier, but I was forced to become a porter. And that happened –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And that happened during the war, you know, so I had to carry bombs and stuff. Basically I was a porter – so they force you to become that – [speaking in Karen]
EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 4
EHI: So that happened once in 1995, and the other time was in 1998.
[04:59]
WV: So did you get out of the military then, and you became a refugee when you got out?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So the point is – okay, in 1998 I was 16 years old, okay? At that time I was still a porter, you know, I had to do stuff during the war. So there was one thought that came to me: “If I die during the war,” – before that, I have a mom and an older sister. Because they’re female, the military won’t take them as a porter; and I was only 16 years old, and I was the only boy in the family so I was forced to become a porter. And then I started thinking, “What if I die during the war? There is no point – I can’t repay my family, nor can I help them in any way.” So I started thinking, “It’s better for me to go to refugee camp, maybe study there; and that could be a possibility to help my family, or in any other ways.” Instead of, “What if I die in the war? That is bad.” And my thought is going to refugee camp is better for me. That’s why I went to the refugee camp.
WV: So you left your family there in the hopes that you might be able to help them, rather than staying in the military?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yes, that was his dream; his goal.
WV: So how long have you been here in the States then? When did you get here?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: In July it will be seven years in Utah.
WV: So have you been here, in Utah, the entire time? So when you first – or where was the camp that you were at when you first went to the refugee camp – where was that?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 5
EHI: It’s called Mae La camp – M-A L-A-E –
WV: M-A?
EHI: M-A L-A-E camp.
EH: M-A-E L-A
EHI: Oh, M-A-E L-A –
EH: M-A-E L-A: Mae La. M-A-E L-A –
WV: L-A?
EH: Yeah. Mae La.
EHI: And I believe this is the largest camp in Thailand.
EH: Yeah, largest camp.
WV: In Thailand?
EH: Yeah.
EHI: Um-hmm.
[08:03]
WV: So how long were in – is it Mae La? Is that how you say it?
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
WV: How long were you there?
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Almost nine years.
WV: And then how did you get out of the camp? How did you wind up coming over to the U.S.?
EHI: So from the camp to the United States?
WV: Yeah, from the camp.
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 6
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well the thing is, people from the United States, from other countries – they were, you know, coming to the refugee camp and wanted to take refugees to their country. And then I heard about it, so I applied for it; and then I applied for it on 2007, and I departed my camp in 2008.
WV: And did they relocate you straight here, to Cache Valley, or did you go somewhere else first?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: It was in Salt Lake.
WV: So that was first?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: He lived in Salt Lake for four months, and he moved to Logan after that.
WV: Okay. So what was your experience like in the camp? What was it like living there?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So my experience in the refugee camp was just like most people, you know: people were going to school – I wanted to go to school. But in my situation I didn’t get to know my dad – my dad died. Yeah, my dad died and my family couldn’t support me, you know; they couldn’t send me to school because I was only person living in the refugee camp. And like most students, they have free time after school you know, to go hang out; me, I didn’t have those time.
WV: So did you just work then, while you were in the camp? Is that all you had time to do was work, and not go to school?
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 7
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
CM: Can we pause this really quick? How do we do that?
[Recording pauses as Eh Htoo tells the children to leave the room]
WV: We good? Okay.
EHI: Well, I was a worker, and at the same time I was a student. I go to school for five days in the week days, and the weekend I work. You know, I need to work because I need to buy clothes, I need to buy candle, I need to buy books, I need to buy stuff, you know, to take care of myself: toothpaste, toothbrush; I mean, there is a whole list (I can’t name them all) –
WV: Right.
EHI: Those are the stuff I need, so I need to work on the weekend.
[12:23]
WV: So were food and clothes and those things not provided at this camp then?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yes, they did provide (for example) rice, salt, oil – stuff like that, you know, just for daily basics; but clothes and stuff, nobody is going to give us clothes or toothpaste, or any other things so I need to make money to buy those.
WV: So now that you’re here, in Utah, are you going to school, or are you working? Or both?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Like I said earlier, I was in Salt Lake for four months –
WV: Um-hmm.
EHI: And then after I move from Salt Lake to Logan, I started working here at JBS.
WV: So are you hoping to bring your family here, or do you want to go back to Burma, to your family? (Or Karen, excuse me.)
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 8
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well I do want my family to come here, you know, I do – but it’s not possible because my family, they grew up in the village and I don’t think they would like this place here, you know, Utah (not Utah, but in the United States). Although we have better education, better food, it’s not something they would like. And another thing is of course I want to go back home: all my family is back there, I want to go back home; but before I can go back I need to make sure that, you know, Karen state is safe and has protection. Right now that is not the case, so what I’m doing is I’m working – if I have a lot of money then I will send some to my family each month (or whenever I have extra money).
WV: So are you able to still keep in contact? Like do you either call or do you write your family back home?
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well yes – I call my mom like every two months (or something like that), you know, I ask her how she’s doing and how is the situation in Karen state? Is it getting better? You know, just the surrounding situation in Karen state. So yeah, I do keep in contact with my family.
[15:58]
WV: So what is the situation like back in Karen? Is it, you know, is there still a lot of fighting there, or is it just still too unstable to go home?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So in Karen state, you know, I can’t say there is war right now, and I can’t say that there isn’t a war right now, or that war is going to occur in the future; I can’t say anything. It can’t be predicted.
EH: Yeah. [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So like I was saying, you know, I cannot tell whether there is a war or not because if there is people who have more power than me, then they will always suppress us; if there isn’t people like that, then it will be safer.
WV: So when do you hope to be able to go back home? I mean, do you think the situation will ever calm down enough that you can? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 9
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well so I do hope to go back there, but even if I were to go back, I would only stay there for one or two years – it won’t be permanent. If I were to go back there, you know, I want to help my family and the people that are in the village. You know, I want to teach them what’s the best way to live, how to survive – and only that will make me feel better (then I would come back here). Even if I were to stay, and even if there are lots of place to work at, but there isn’t any protection so I – yeah.
WV: So even if you go back to your family, you would still eventually come back to the States? I know you said that, “Because I grew up in a village, it might be hard for them to adjust here.” But do you think it might be better if they came back with you?
WVI: Say it again?
WV: Sorry, that was kind of a long question.
WVI: Yeah.
WV: Do you think even though they might prefer to stay in Burma, do you think you would try to bring them back with you when you came back to the states?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So yes, I tell my mom, you know, I want her to come here: it’s better for us, and our lives are guaranteed here, you know; but no, she just doesn’t want to live here. Well and the thing is that even though it’s not protected, you know, even though the state is in a war situation, my mom still wants to live there (even though she has to hide each day, it doesn’t matter; she believe that she can go through each day).
[20:27]
WV: So then what – I guess what do you plan on doing? I mean, do you plan on just going back periodically to visit, to help? Or what are your, I guess your plans after you’ve gone home?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 10
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well, yes. Let’s say as I go back to Burma, each time of course I will look at my surroundings (the situation). If it gets better – like if the Burmese military were, you know, not fighting other ethnic groups, not just Karen (and there are many, many ethnic groups in Burma) – so if the situation is better, and if they accept U.S. citizens, you know, to go and visit Burma (to get permission to live there for many years), then I would stay there like five or six years.
WV: So have you gotten your citizenship here, in the United States then?
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
WV: How long did that take? Or what was that process like?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: It took about four months to become a citizen.
WV: Wow, that’s fast.
WVI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So it took three months to apply for it, and then after that they will call me to go and scan my finger. And after that I took a test, and I passed. So, really quick.
WV: So did you learn English when you were – it was Thailand, right? Where the camp was?
WVI: Yeah.
WV: So did you learn English while you were there, or did you just pick it up when you got here, to the U.S.?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 11
EHI: So yes, I did go to school back in the refugee camp, so I did know basic English; but of course my accent was different from other people, and my English teacher wasn’t an English person. And when I got here I had to make an adjustment, you know, I had to learn the accent and try to relearn it all over again.
WV: So overall, did you have an easier time adjusting here? I mean, do you prefer living here – or was life, you know, okay in the camp?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
[24:13]
EHI: Well I prefer to live in United States, because living in Thailand – I wasn’t a Thai citizen; they didn’t accept me and it’s not my country. Here, they accept me as a U.S. citizen, so I would prefer to stay here.
WV: So you arrived in Salt Lake – did you move here, to Logan, for work?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Correct.
WV: I know there is a fairly large community here, how do you like living in Logan?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well it’s not the place that I like, you know, I think it depends on someone’s heart (I guess). You know if my heart is like living here, then yeah. So it depends on my – [speaks Karen] it depends on my heart I guess.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Some people doesn’t like to live here, but –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So as long as there isn’t any war – as long as there isn’t any fighting then yeah, I don’t mind living in Logan.
WV: So you like it here because it’s peaceful? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 12
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And another thing is everybody follow the rules here – they respect the rules. So, yeah.
WV: Were you raised with any particular religion?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Oh, okay. Well yes, I mean everybody grew up –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Everybody grew up with a different religion, but for me it was different, you know: I grew up believing in nature, I would say. You know, like a mountain – they might have a mountain spirit; for water they might have a water spirit. So that’s what I believe in.
WV: So was that a more traditional belief in Karen?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So I think it’s not just for Karen people, you know, the religious tradition; it might also be for other people as well.
[27:08]
WV: Let me rephrase: so was that, I guess, a common belief there?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 13
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well yeah, that back then a lot of people in my village – they had the same belief as me, you know: they believe in nature in my village.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: But right now I think there aren’t many who still believe in nature because everywhere, you know, there are Christian, Buddhists, and it’s just surrounded by that particular religion (my religion); so there isn’t a lot of people who still believe in nature.
WV: It’s not as common these days?
EHI: No; yes.
WV: So I guess one thing that I’m curious about is if there is one thing that, you know, you could tell people (either, you know, in the area, or the U.S.) – like if there is one message that you would want for people to hear, what would it be?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So I think he is asking – there are many messages, but for what purpose?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
WV: Okay, so from your experience, you know, what you’ve seen and what you’ve been through, if there is something that, you know, you want people to know (either about you or where you come from)?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
[30:17]
EHI: So basically, when I was 15 years old my dad died, and then after that (like I said) I was forced to become a porter. Because my mom and my sister was female, there was no way they could do that.
[Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 14
EHI: So he is saying that he doesn’t feel very comfortable like saying – it’s not he is not comfortable – he has to stop at a certain point for me to translate that, it’s just not coming out.
[Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well of course I had many bad experience, but I’d like to share two, particularly. One is that when I was 18 years old (it was in 1998) –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: I mean 16 years old. Like I said, people were coming, taking us as porters. And because my mom and my sister was female, they couldn’t do it. And the thing is like each house has to go five weekdays to do a porter, and if we don’t go then they will charge us $100 each day if we don’t go. We didn’t have any money; we were so poor, so I had to go do it. Everybody was so big and old; I was the smallest to become a porter.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So you know, as I was doing porter – at the beginning I was told, “It’s only going to take ten days, and because you’re only like 16 years old we won’t put you in the front,” you know, “where there are higher chances of getting hit by the bullet.” That is what I was told, but that wasn’t the case, you know; it doesn’t matter you were young or old, I was put at the front. It doesn’t matter I was young or old, they gave me big bags, you know, (just like everybody) that I had to carry – they are all the same weight. And then what happened later was, because there was war going on, they told me at first that they were going to protect me and put me in the back, but that wasn’t the case. And after ten days – it’s because there was a war going on, they just couldn’t get any help and they didn’t protect me, or they can’t ask other people to come or take my place because I’m already, you know, at the front and it’s really dangerous to replace people. So, yeah.
[34:32]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So like I said, after ten days you know, I was hoping that people would replace me with the other bigger and stronger person, but they didn’t. And because I was so small, you know, the military didn’t think I would come up with a strategy or a way to escape the situation, but I did. I thought of it, I didn’t want to stay here, you know; it’s dangerous. So as war going on, because I was only 16 years old and the military didn’t think of me as anything – and that is also when I escaped from that place.
[Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 15
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Oh, and as I was escaping I didn’t go straight to the refugee camp, I went back to my home: to the Karen state.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So as I was escaping that place, you know, I also helped two old men. They were telling me that, “It’s dangerous, don’t escape this place,” you know, “there are bombs everywhere and you might get hit, so just don’t do it.” And then I said, “No, believe me; I’m going to walk at the front, so if there was a bomb then I would get hit first. Because I was so small, even if I get hit you guys can carry me with you. But if you guys get hit by the bomb, I can’t help with it.”
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
[37:39]
EHI: So you know, that day it was a run and there was when everything was quiet down, you know, the war is like kind of – everybody was resting. And at the same time we had a duty where we had to go and fill up water and bring it back to that place. And I told those two old men, “Don’t bring anything with you; just bring your clothes and a container to pretend like we’re going to swim to get water.” And that’s when I escaped from that place.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: As I was doing porter with the Burmese military and they were speaking Burmese and I was speaking Karen, and there was also some challenges between me and the Burmese military (because of language barrier).
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: In the process of escaping, you know, those two old men – they know the place and they know the roads; but at the same time they know there are bombs, but they don’t know where it is. So as we were escaping, they showed me where to go, you know, they showed me this is the way back home. So I thought that, “Let’s say if this is the road, of course there are going to be bombs.” So what I did was I kind of walked in a place where people won’t usually going to walk on it. So that’s how I escaped through those bombs.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Let’s say from the place where there is war going on, and the place to my house it would take about a day to walk; but because I had to try to avoid those bombs, it took about one and a half or two days. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 16
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: The distance is about from here to Bear Lake.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
[40:38]
EHI: So as soon as I get to my village, you know, I went to ask those people who told me that it’s going to take ten days and I won’t be put at the front, and then I went straight to them (it was in the evening-ish), I went to see them and was going to ask them those questions, you know.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: You know, the person that told me it’s going to take ten days, and I won’t be put at the front was like a leader in the village, you know; he is like – he is really old and he is really nice. I went to him and ask him, “Why was I put at the front, and why does it take longer than ten days? And why didn’t you replace me with other people?” So that leader, you know, that old man (that leader) – he told me, “I’m really glad that you escaped that place. I didn’t think that anybody would come up with a strategy to escape that place, because we don’t have anybody back here to replace any of you out there.” So he was glad that I escaped that place.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Starting then, starting from the time I escaped – you know, as I was thinking, “Although I escaped that place, they’re going to come back and force me to become a porter again. And if they do that each time, of course I am going to get older and older. And as I get older they’re going to, you know, force me to do much, much heavy work and much, much harder things.” So I decided, “It’s no use living here,” you know, “If I die out there, it won’t benefit me or my family or my people.”
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: As I was coming up with those thoughts, I ended up in a refugee camp.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Like what I said earlier, I asked my mom, saying that I’m going to go to a refugee camp to live, and she’s like, “Okay, you can go then.”
[43:40]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 17
EHI: So before I left my village, you know, I asked my mom for permission. She said, “Okay, you can go.” But before my left, my mom told me, “Son,” you know, “you can go there; you can go to the refugee camp, but I cannot support. Of course they’re going to give you pencil, books to go to school, maybe food – but if you want any other particular things, you know, such as good clothes or any other thing, there is no way I can support you. So if you want to go, just think about – just keep that in mind.”
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And like I said earlier, I go to school for five days and I work on the weekend, and that’s how I support myself because I didn’t have any help back then.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Before I got to the refugee camp I already knew someone, and fortunately he went to the – there is like a place you have to put your name to get food – and he went ahead and put my name on the list, you know, saying that I’m going to be coming, I’m going to get some food. And yeah, I liked that idea, but in order for me to get food that person had to lie for me, you know; he said that my parents were dead, and I had to live that way. I didn’t like lying, but I had to lie to get food. I had to say that my parents are gone, and that’s one of the ways to get help, I guess.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Okay well like I said, in that program if you tell that your parents are gone – well in this case my dad was really gone, but my mom isn’t – then they put my name saying that my parents are gone, and in this case they will help me for 20 years (that was the promise). They gave me umbrella, toothpaste, toothbrush –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Soap and shampoo, and a candle to study (so I can see in the dark).
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And they gave us those every year (once a year).
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Okay, actually it’s not like that – for umbrella they give it once a year, but for the other five items, they give it every month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 18
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And I’m really, really thankful for that, and you know, for helping me and giving me those items (those are really needed).
[47:55]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: That’s pretty much the end of my story, I guess. Like I was saying, I go to school five days, I work in the weekends. My work is – I woke up at three in the morning – my work is dependent on the season I guess. If people were selling this particular item this three months, and I will have to do the same thing. So what I have done was at three a.m. I went out in the deep forest and looking for bamboos (like small bamboos), and I have to you know, it could be rainy, it’s dangerous, I have boots and it was kind of dangerous. But yeah, I won’t get home until five p.m. in the evening, so it’s all day work.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So bamboos are really heavy, you know; each day the most I can get is about 60 kilogram – [speaking to Eh Htoo] Kilogram?
EH: Um-hmm.
EHI: But the way that people are buying it, they buy it one gram is one dollar – not one dollar, but one Bahts in Thai money; so I would get about 60 Bahts a day.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And that takes all day long: from three a.m., to five p.m.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And if we were to compare it with U.S. dollar, it would be two dollars a day.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And that would take around ten hours (I think) – ten hours of work.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well this is pretty much it about my story. Of course there are other things, but they are not really important or significant.
WV: Thank you for sharing. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 19
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]
EH: Thank you.
WV: So that’s about all the questions that I have. Meagan or Bethany, do either of you have questions for Eh Htoo?
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
BH: I did think of a couple
BHI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah, no problem.
BH: You mentioned – well you talked a lot about escaping from the military – was that a common thing? Were there many people that escaped?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well it really depends, you know. For people who sees things different like, “This place isn’t right, we have to escape,” then yeah – it’s possible for them to escape that place; but for people who fear that “There are bombs, there are military, they are going to catch you” – then I don’t think they will ever come up with a thought of escaping that place.
BH: What would have happened had they caught you while you were trying to escape?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well for me (I was only 16 years old), so even if they caught me it won’t be much of a problem; but for those two old man – yeah, it’s a big problem.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
[53:25]
EHI: Well yeah, even if – let’s say the people were trying to escape and they got hit by the bomb, it just cause a problem for that leader in the village camp, and it cause a problem for the military as well. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 20
BH: Oh, thank you.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
MG: Good?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: He is saying it doesn’t matter what country it is, but refugee occur mostly just like this, you know, because some country are not stable because there is war going on, there is no protection for people. I guess that’s how most refugee occur.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: He wants to ask you guys a question now.
BH: Sure.
EHI: So do you guys think that the more refugee we have, is that a better thing or not? Is that a better thing or not?
WV: Do we think it’s good that we have more refugees here, in the States?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So he is saying around the world – the whole world. Is it better if there isn’t any refugees? Or is it better if there is some refugees?
WV: Well I mean, for me at least, I wish there didn’t have to be.
WVI: [Speaking in Karen.]
WV: I would much rather have people be in a place where they are safe.
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: As you were saying, you know, you want people to have peace and you know, no refugees; but is there a way for that to happen?
WV: I don’t know; hopefully some day.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 21
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]
[55:58]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Do you know why there are refugees these days?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: The whole world, yeah. Do you know why there are refugees?
WV: You mean still?
EHI: Yeah, still? Or why did they even happen in the first place?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: [Responding in Karen.]
Yeah, like why did it occur? I don’t know.
WV: I wish I had an answer; I don’t know. It’s just some people do what they want, regardless of the price to others; there is no real reason for it.
WVI: [Repeating the answer in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well I have an answer; I think you know, it’s because of three reasons why there are refugees: one is because of business and economy; secondly it is because of religious; thirdly it is because of politics.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: That’s what I think.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well I think those are the answer, but I don’t know which is the right answer. I don’t know how to solve this problem either. But I just hope that, you know, people who has more power could maybe come up with an idea to get rid of this, I guess.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 22
EHI: Yeah, I’m sure that those are the three reasons why refugees occur. I really hope, you know, people who have more power can help, or maybe other countries can help.
WV: Well and I agree that I think those are the causes; but as far as, you know, I don’t think there is a good reason why people do those things (is what I was trying to say).
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well for my conclusion, I guess, of course I have many other things I want to share with you guys (but I don’t think there is enough time) – let’s say if I were to graduate from here in the States, you know, and let’s say if I was invited to the White House just to talk about these issues – it would be nice. But currently I am nobody, I don’t have an education; so yeah, I just don’t have the power or hope to even say that, talk about those issues.
WV: Well that’s one of the reasons why we’re here, and why we are doing this. You know, we are one school, but our hope is that we can help you get your story out there, so that maybe we can do something.
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
WV: So thank you for giving us the chance, and for talking with us.
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
WV: I think we’re good.
[End recording – 60:25]
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): Eh Htoo
Present: Wes Van de Water, Eh Htoo, Chit Moe, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill
Place of Interview:
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015
Language(s): Karen
Translation:
Interviewer: Wes Van de Water
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Meagan Gill
Photographer: Bethany Hanks
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 19, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water, May 23, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Eh Htoo talks about his life being born into war in the Karen state in Burma. He describes his life as a teenager: his father dying, and then being recruited as a porter for the Burmese military, and his subsequent escape into a refugee camp (Mae La) in Thailand. He talks about his life in Mae La camp: going to school and working to collect bamboo, before moving to the United States (first Salt Lake City, Utah, then Cache Valley, Utah).
Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator
EH = Eh Htoo
EHI = Eh Htoo’s words interpreted by translator
BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator
CM= Chit Moe
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 2
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us – oh, sorry; first off it is May 16th, 2015 (I almost said 2005)
[Laughter]
WV: It is six o’clock; we are here meeting with Eh Htoo. My name is Wes Van de Water, I’ll be doing the interview. Meagan Gill is recording, and Bethany Hanks is our photographer. And our translator for this interview is Chit Moe.
Okay, so Eh Htoo, if you wouldn’t mind, could you tell us your full name and the year that you were born?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: My name is Eh Htoo, and I was born in 1983.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And he is not sure what date (or days) he was born, but he only know –
WV: Knows the year?
EHI: Yeah.
WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us a bit about your family, where you’re from.
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: I came from Karen state (which is in Burma), but my family, my relatives – they are all in Burma right now, in Karen state.
WV: So your family is still in Burma then?
EH: Not Burma, Karen state.
EHI: It’s in Karen state, but it’s in Burma country.
WV: Oh, okay; got you – sorry, so your family is still over in Karen? So if your family is still in Karen, how did you wind up here in the United States?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 3
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So I became a refugee twice, based on my experience: once when I was born, and the other one was – which he hasn’t talked about it yet. Okay.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: [Responding in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Oh, okay. So ever since he was born – no, I was born in 1983; ever since I was born, there was a war between Burmese military and the Karen military. I automatically became a refugee and went to a refugee camp ever since I was born. And in 1985, I came back to my Karen state –
EH: Ninety-five.
EHI: Oh, in 1985?
EH: Ninety-five.
EHI: 1995, I’m sorry. In 1995, I came back to my country because I heard there was peace, and it’s better to live in there. So I love my country, that’s why I want to go back.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So after I went back to my country (which is in Karen state), it wasn’t what I was expecting: there wasn’t any peace, and there was still war going on. And when I was 13 years old I became a soldier.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Okay, so not a soldier, but I was – [speaking in Karen]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Actually not a soldier, but I was forced to become a porter. And that happened –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And that happened during the war, you know, so I had to carry bombs and stuff. Basically I was a porter – so they force you to become that – [speaking in Karen]
EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 4
EHI: So that happened once in 1995, and the other time was in 1998.
[04:59]
WV: So did you get out of the military then, and you became a refugee when you got out?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So the point is – okay, in 1998 I was 16 years old, okay? At that time I was still a porter, you know, I had to do stuff during the war. So there was one thought that came to me: “If I die during the war,” – before that, I have a mom and an older sister. Because they’re female, the military won’t take them as a porter; and I was only 16 years old, and I was the only boy in the family so I was forced to become a porter. And then I started thinking, “What if I die during the war? There is no point – I can’t repay my family, nor can I help them in any way.” So I started thinking, “It’s better for me to go to refugee camp, maybe study there; and that could be a possibility to help my family, or in any other ways.” Instead of, “What if I die in the war? That is bad.” And my thought is going to refugee camp is better for me. That’s why I went to the refugee camp.
WV: So you left your family there in the hopes that you might be able to help them, rather than staying in the military?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yes, that was his dream; his goal.
WV: So how long have you been here in the States then? When did you get here?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: In July it will be seven years in Utah.
WV: So have you been here, in Utah, the entire time? So when you first – or where was the camp that you were at when you first went to the refugee camp – where was that?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 5
EHI: It’s called Mae La camp – M-A L-A-E –
WV: M-A?
EHI: M-A L-A-E camp.
EH: M-A-E L-A
EHI: Oh, M-A-E L-A –
EH: M-A-E L-A: Mae La. M-A-E L-A –
WV: L-A?
EH: Yeah. Mae La.
EHI: And I believe this is the largest camp in Thailand.
EH: Yeah, largest camp.
WV: In Thailand?
EH: Yeah.
EHI: Um-hmm.
[08:03]
WV: So how long were in – is it Mae La? Is that how you say it?
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
WV: How long were you there?
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Almost nine years.
WV: And then how did you get out of the camp? How did you wind up coming over to the U.S.?
EHI: So from the camp to the United States?
WV: Yeah, from the camp.
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 6
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well the thing is, people from the United States, from other countries – they were, you know, coming to the refugee camp and wanted to take refugees to their country. And then I heard about it, so I applied for it; and then I applied for it on 2007, and I departed my camp in 2008.
WV: And did they relocate you straight here, to Cache Valley, or did you go somewhere else first?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: It was in Salt Lake.
WV: So that was first?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: He lived in Salt Lake for four months, and he moved to Logan after that.
WV: Okay. So what was your experience like in the camp? What was it like living there?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So my experience in the refugee camp was just like most people, you know: people were going to school – I wanted to go to school. But in my situation I didn’t get to know my dad – my dad died. Yeah, my dad died and my family couldn’t support me, you know; they couldn’t send me to school because I was only person living in the refugee camp. And like most students, they have free time after school you know, to go hang out; me, I didn’t have those time.
WV: So did you just work then, while you were in the camp? Is that all you had time to do was work, and not go to school?
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 7
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
CM: Can we pause this really quick? How do we do that?
[Recording pauses as Eh Htoo tells the children to leave the room]
WV: We good? Okay.
EHI: Well, I was a worker, and at the same time I was a student. I go to school for five days in the week days, and the weekend I work. You know, I need to work because I need to buy clothes, I need to buy candle, I need to buy books, I need to buy stuff, you know, to take care of myself: toothpaste, toothbrush; I mean, there is a whole list (I can’t name them all) –
WV: Right.
EHI: Those are the stuff I need, so I need to work on the weekend.
[12:23]
WV: So were food and clothes and those things not provided at this camp then?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yes, they did provide (for example) rice, salt, oil – stuff like that, you know, just for daily basics; but clothes and stuff, nobody is going to give us clothes or toothpaste, or any other things so I need to make money to buy those.
WV: So now that you’re here, in Utah, are you going to school, or are you working? Or both?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Like I said earlier, I was in Salt Lake for four months –
WV: Um-hmm.
EHI: And then after I move from Salt Lake to Logan, I started working here at JBS.
WV: So are you hoping to bring your family here, or do you want to go back to Burma, to your family? (Or Karen, excuse me.)
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 8
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well I do want my family to come here, you know, I do – but it’s not possible because my family, they grew up in the village and I don’t think they would like this place here, you know, Utah (not Utah, but in the United States). Although we have better education, better food, it’s not something they would like. And another thing is of course I want to go back home: all my family is back there, I want to go back home; but before I can go back I need to make sure that, you know, Karen state is safe and has protection. Right now that is not the case, so what I’m doing is I’m working – if I have a lot of money then I will send some to my family each month (or whenever I have extra money).
WV: So are you able to still keep in contact? Like do you either call or do you write your family back home?
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well yes – I call my mom like every two months (or something like that), you know, I ask her how she’s doing and how is the situation in Karen state? Is it getting better? You know, just the surrounding situation in Karen state. So yeah, I do keep in contact with my family.
[15:58]
WV: So what is the situation like back in Karen? Is it, you know, is there still a lot of fighting there, or is it just still too unstable to go home?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So in Karen state, you know, I can’t say there is war right now, and I can’t say that there isn’t a war right now, or that war is going to occur in the future; I can’t say anything. It can’t be predicted.
EH: Yeah. [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So like I was saying, you know, I cannot tell whether there is a war or not because if there is people who have more power than me, then they will always suppress us; if there isn’t people like that, then it will be safer.
WV: So when do you hope to be able to go back home? I mean, do you think the situation will ever calm down enough that you can? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 9
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well so I do hope to go back there, but even if I were to go back, I would only stay there for one or two years – it won’t be permanent. If I were to go back there, you know, I want to help my family and the people that are in the village. You know, I want to teach them what’s the best way to live, how to survive – and only that will make me feel better (then I would come back here). Even if I were to stay, and even if there are lots of place to work at, but there isn’t any protection so I – yeah.
WV: So even if you go back to your family, you would still eventually come back to the States? I know you said that, “Because I grew up in a village, it might be hard for them to adjust here.” But do you think it might be better if they came back with you?
WVI: Say it again?
WV: Sorry, that was kind of a long question.
WVI: Yeah.
WV: Do you think even though they might prefer to stay in Burma, do you think you would try to bring them back with you when you came back to the states?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So yes, I tell my mom, you know, I want her to come here: it’s better for us, and our lives are guaranteed here, you know; but no, she just doesn’t want to live here. Well and the thing is that even though it’s not protected, you know, even though the state is in a war situation, my mom still wants to live there (even though she has to hide each day, it doesn’t matter; she believe that she can go through each day).
[20:27]
WV: So then what – I guess what do you plan on doing? I mean, do you plan on just going back periodically to visit, to help? Or what are your, I guess your plans after you’ve gone home?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 10
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well, yes. Let’s say as I go back to Burma, each time of course I will look at my surroundings (the situation). If it gets better – like if the Burmese military were, you know, not fighting other ethnic groups, not just Karen (and there are many, many ethnic groups in Burma) – so if the situation is better, and if they accept U.S. citizens, you know, to go and visit Burma (to get permission to live there for many years), then I would stay there like five or six years.
WV: So have you gotten your citizenship here, in the United States then?
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
WV: How long did that take? Or what was that process like?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: It took about four months to become a citizen.
WV: Wow, that’s fast.
WVI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So it took three months to apply for it, and then after that they will call me to go and scan my finger. And after that I took a test, and I passed. So, really quick.
WV: So did you learn English when you were – it was Thailand, right? Where the camp was?
WVI: Yeah.
WV: So did you learn English while you were there, or did you just pick it up when you got here, to the U.S.?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 11
EHI: So yes, I did go to school back in the refugee camp, so I did know basic English; but of course my accent was different from other people, and my English teacher wasn’t an English person. And when I got here I had to make an adjustment, you know, I had to learn the accent and try to relearn it all over again.
WV: So overall, did you have an easier time adjusting here? I mean, do you prefer living here – or was life, you know, okay in the camp?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
[24:13]
EHI: Well I prefer to live in United States, because living in Thailand – I wasn’t a Thai citizen; they didn’t accept me and it’s not my country. Here, they accept me as a U.S. citizen, so I would prefer to stay here.
WV: So you arrived in Salt Lake – did you move here, to Logan, for work?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Correct.
WV: I know there is a fairly large community here, how do you like living in Logan?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well it’s not the place that I like, you know, I think it depends on someone’s heart (I guess). You know if my heart is like living here, then yeah. So it depends on my – [speaks Karen] it depends on my heart I guess.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Some people doesn’t like to live here, but –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So as long as there isn’t any war – as long as there isn’t any fighting then yeah, I don’t mind living in Logan.
WV: So you like it here because it’s peaceful? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 12
WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And another thing is everybody follow the rules here – they respect the rules. So, yeah.
WV: Were you raised with any particular religion?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Oh, okay. Well yes, I mean everybody grew up –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Everybody grew up with a different religion, but for me it was different, you know: I grew up believing in nature, I would say. You know, like a mountain – they might have a mountain spirit; for water they might have a water spirit. So that’s what I believe in.
WV: So was that a more traditional belief in Karen?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So I think it’s not just for Karen people, you know, the religious tradition; it might also be for other people as well.
[27:08]
WV: Let me rephrase: so was that, I guess, a common belief there?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 13
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well yeah, that back then a lot of people in my village – they had the same belief as me, you know: they believe in nature in my village.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: But right now I think there aren’t many who still believe in nature because everywhere, you know, there are Christian, Buddhists, and it’s just surrounded by that particular religion (my religion); so there isn’t a lot of people who still believe in nature.
WV: It’s not as common these days?
EHI: No; yes.
WV: So I guess one thing that I’m curious about is if there is one thing that, you know, you could tell people (either, you know, in the area, or the U.S.) – like if there is one message that you would want for people to hear, what would it be?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So I think he is asking – there are many messages, but for what purpose?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
WV: Okay, so from your experience, you know, what you’ve seen and what you’ve been through, if there is something that, you know, you want people to know (either about you or where you come from)?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
[30:17]
EHI: So basically, when I was 15 years old my dad died, and then after that (like I said) I was forced to become a porter. Because my mom and my sister was female, there was no way they could do that.
[Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 14
EHI: So he is saying that he doesn’t feel very comfortable like saying – it’s not he is not comfortable – he has to stop at a certain point for me to translate that, it’s just not coming out.
[Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well of course I had many bad experience, but I’d like to share two, particularly. One is that when I was 18 years old (it was in 1998) –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: I mean 16 years old. Like I said, people were coming, taking us as porters. And because my mom and my sister was female, they couldn’t do it. And the thing is like each house has to go five weekdays to do a porter, and if we don’t go then they will charge us $100 each day if we don’t go. We didn’t have any money; we were so poor, so I had to go do it. Everybody was so big and old; I was the smallest to become a porter.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So you know, as I was doing porter – at the beginning I was told, “It’s only going to take ten days, and because you’re only like 16 years old we won’t put you in the front,” you know, “where there are higher chances of getting hit by the bullet.” That is what I was told, but that wasn’t the case, you know; it doesn’t matter you were young or old, I was put at the front. It doesn’t matter I was young or old, they gave me big bags, you know, (just like everybody) that I had to carry – they are all the same weight. And then what happened later was, because there was war going on, they told me at first that they were going to protect me and put me in the back, but that wasn’t the case. And after ten days – it’s because there was a war going on, they just couldn’t get any help and they didn’t protect me, or they can’t ask other people to come or take my place because I’m already, you know, at the front and it’s really dangerous to replace people. So, yeah.
[34:32]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So like I said, after ten days you know, I was hoping that people would replace me with the other bigger and stronger person, but they didn’t. And because I was so small, you know, the military didn’t think I would come up with a strategy or a way to escape the situation, but I did. I thought of it, I didn’t want to stay here, you know; it’s dangerous. So as war going on, because I was only 16 years old and the military didn’t think of me as anything – and that is also when I escaped from that place.
[Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 15
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Oh, and as I was escaping I didn’t go straight to the refugee camp, I went back to my home: to the Karen state.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So as I was escaping that place, you know, I also helped two old men. They were telling me that, “It’s dangerous, don’t escape this place,” you know, “there are bombs everywhere and you might get hit, so just don’t do it.” And then I said, “No, believe me; I’m going to walk at the front, so if there was a bomb then I would get hit first. Because I was so small, even if I get hit you guys can carry me with you. But if you guys get hit by the bomb, I can’t help with it.”
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
[37:39]
EHI: So you know, that day it was a run and there was when everything was quiet down, you know, the war is like kind of – everybody was resting. And at the same time we had a duty where we had to go and fill up water and bring it back to that place. And I told those two old men, “Don’t bring anything with you; just bring your clothes and a container to pretend like we’re going to swim to get water.” And that’s when I escaped from that place.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: As I was doing porter with the Burmese military and they were speaking Burmese and I was speaking Karen, and there was also some challenges between me and the Burmese military (because of language barrier).
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: In the process of escaping, you know, those two old men – they know the place and they know the roads; but at the same time they know there are bombs, but they don’t know where it is. So as we were escaping, they showed me where to go, you know, they showed me this is the way back home. So I thought that, “Let’s say if this is the road, of course there are going to be bombs.” So what I did was I kind of walked in a place where people won’t usually going to walk on it. So that’s how I escaped through those bombs.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Let’s say from the place where there is war going on, and the place to my house it would take about a day to walk; but because I had to try to avoid those bombs, it took about one and a half or two days. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 16
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: The distance is about from here to Bear Lake.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
[40:38]
EHI: So as soon as I get to my village, you know, I went to ask those people who told me that it’s going to take ten days and I won’t be put at the front, and then I went straight to them (it was in the evening-ish), I went to see them and was going to ask them those questions, you know.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: You know, the person that told me it’s going to take ten days, and I won’t be put at the front was like a leader in the village, you know; he is like – he is really old and he is really nice. I went to him and ask him, “Why was I put at the front, and why does it take longer than ten days? And why didn’t you replace me with other people?” So that leader, you know, that old man (that leader) – he told me, “I’m really glad that you escaped that place. I didn’t think that anybody would come up with a strategy to escape that place, because we don’t have anybody back here to replace any of you out there.” So he was glad that I escaped that place.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Starting then, starting from the time I escaped – you know, as I was thinking, “Although I escaped that place, they’re going to come back and force me to become a porter again. And if they do that each time, of course I am going to get older and older. And as I get older they’re going to, you know, force me to do much, much heavy work and much, much harder things.” So I decided, “It’s no use living here,” you know, “If I die out there, it won’t benefit me or my family or my people.”
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: As I was coming up with those thoughts, I ended up in a refugee camp.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Like what I said earlier, I asked my mom, saying that I’m going to go to a refugee camp to live, and she’s like, “Okay, you can go then.”
[43:40]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 17
EHI: So before I left my village, you know, I asked my mom for permission. She said, “Okay, you can go.” But before my left, my mom told me, “Son,” you know, “you can go there; you can go to the refugee camp, but I cannot support. Of course they’re going to give you pencil, books to go to school, maybe food – but if you want any other particular things, you know, such as good clothes or any other thing, there is no way I can support you. So if you want to go, just think about – just keep that in mind.”
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And like I said earlier, I go to school for five days and I work on the weekend, and that’s how I support myself because I didn’t have any help back then.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Before I got to the refugee camp I already knew someone, and fortunately he went to the – there is like a place you have to put your name to get food – and he went ahead and put my name on the list, you know, saying that I’m going to be coming, I’m going to get some food. And yeah, I liked that idea, but in order for me to get food that person had to lie for me, you know; he said that my parents were dead, and I had to live that way. I didn’t like lying, but I had to lie to get food. I had to say that my parents are gone, and that’s one of the ways to get help, I guess.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Okay well like I said, in that program if you tell that your parents are gone – well in this case my dad was really gone, but my mom isn’t – then they put my name saying that my parents are gone, and in this case they will help me for 20 years (that was the promise). They gave me umbrella, toothpaste, toothbrush –
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Soap and shampoo, and a candle to study (so I can see in the dark).
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And they gave us those every year (once a year).
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: [Speaking in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Okay, actually it’s not like that – for umbrella they give it once a year, but for the other five items, they give it every month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 18
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And I’m really, really thankful for that, and you know, for helping me and giving me those items (those are really needed).
[47:55]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: That’s pretty much the end of my story, I guess. Like I was saying, I go to school five days, I work in the weekends. My work is – I woke up at three in the morning – my work is dependent on the season I guess. If people were selling this particular item this three months, and I will have to do the same thing. So what I have done was at three a.m. I went out in the deep forest and looking for bamboos (like small bamboos), and I have to you know, it could be rainy, it’s dangerous, I have boots and it was kind of dangerous. But yeah, I won’t get home until five p.m. in the evening, so it’s all day work.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: So bamboos are really heavy, you know; each day the most I can get is about 60 kilogram – [speaking to Eh Htoo] Kilogram?
EH: Um-hmm.
EHI: But the way that people are buying it, they buy it one gram is one dollar – not one dollar, but one Bahts in Thai money; so I would get about 60 Bahts a day.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And that takes all day long: from three a.m., to five p.m.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And if we were to compare it with U.S. dollar, it would be two dollars a day.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: And that would take around ten hours (I think) – ten hours of work.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well this is pretty much it about my story. Of course there are other things, but they are not really important or significant.
WV: Thank you for sharing. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 19
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]
EH: Thank you.
WV: So that’s about all the questions that I have. Meagan or Bethany, do either of you have questions for Eh Htoo?
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
BH: I did think of a couple
BHI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah, no problem.
BH: You mentioned – well you talked a lot about escaping from the military – was that a common thing? Were there many people that escaped?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well it really depends, you know. For people who sees things different like, “This place isn’t right, we have to escape,” then yeah – it’s possible for them to escape that place; but for people who fear that “There are bombs, there are military, they are going to catch you” – then I don’t think they will ever come up with a thought of escaping that place.
BH: What would have happened had they caught you while you were trying to escape?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well for me (I was only 16 years old), so even if they caught me it won’t be much of a problem; but for those two old man – yeah, it’s a big problem.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
[53:25]
EHI: Well yeah, even if – let’s say the people were trying to escape and they got hit by the bomb, it just cause a problem for that leader in the village camp, and it cause a problem for the military as well. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 20
BH: Oh, thank you.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
MG: Good?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: He is saying it doesn’t matter what country it is, but refugee occur mostly just like this, you know, because some country are not stable because there is war going on, there is no protection for people. I guess that’s how most refugee occur.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: He wants to ask you guys a question now.
BH: Sure.
EHI: So do you guys think that the more refugee we have, is that a better thing or not? Is that a better thing or not?
WV: Do we think it’s good that we have more refugees here, in the States?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: So he is saying around the world – the whole world. Is it better if there isn’t any refugees? Or is it better if there is some refugees?
WV: Well I mean, for me at least, I wish there didn’t have to be.
WVI: [Speaking in Karen.]
WV: I would much rather have people be in a place where they are safe.
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: As you were saying, you know, you want people to have peace and you know, no refugees; but is there a way for that to happen?
WV: I don’t know; hopefully some day.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 21
WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.]
[55:58]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Do you know why there are refugees these days?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: The whole world, yeah. Do you know why there are refugees?
WV: You mean still?
EHI: Yeah, still? Or why did they even happen in the first place?
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: [Responding in Karen.]
Yeah, like why did it occur? I don’t know.
WV: I wish I had an answer; I don’t know. It’s just some people do what they want, regardless of the price to others; there is no real reason for it.
WVI: [Repeating the answer in Karen.]
EH: [Responding in Karen.]
EHI: Well I have an answer; I think you know, it’s because of three reasons why there are refugees: one is because of business and economy; secondly it is because of religious; thirdly it is because of politics.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: That’s what I think.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well I think those are the answer, but I don’t know which is the right answer. I don’t know how to solve this problem either. But I just hope that, you know, people who has more power could maybe come up with an idea to get rid of this, I guess.
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 22
EHI: Yeah, I’m sure that those are the three reasons why refugees occur. I really hope, you know, people who have more power can help, or maybe other countries can help.
WV: Well and I agree that I think those are the causes; but as far as, you know, I don’t think there is a good reason why people do those things (is what I was trying to say).
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Well for my conclusion, I guess, of course I have many other things I want to share with you guys (but I don’t think there is enough time) – let’s say if I were to graduate from here in the States, you know, and let’s say if I was invited to the White House just to talk about these issues – it would be nice. But currently I am nobody, I don’t have an education; so yeah, I just don’t have the power or hope to even say that, talk about those issues.
WV: Well that’s one of the reasons why we’re here, and why we are doing this. You know, we are one school, but our hope is that we can help you get your story out there, so that maybe we can do something.
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
EH: [Speaking in Karen.]
EHI: Yeah.
WV: So thank you for giving us the chance, and for talking with us.
WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.]
WV: I think we’re good.
[End recording – 60:25]
Source
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 61
Date
2015-05-16
Rights
Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663;
Relation
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67611
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project Digital Collection
Language
Type
Identifier
http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/p16944coll14/id/85
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